Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Other Gaming => Video & Computer Games => Topic started by: Reggie Flores on September 14, 2008, 02:58:00 PM
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The Smashboards Officials just released the list a couple of weeks ago.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192028
Top
Meta Knight
Snake
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Diddy
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Pit
Wolf
Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Sheik
Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Captain Falcon
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Lol. I bet there are some people who don't agree with a few of those. ;)
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Some beefs:
Olimar middle tier? Frsrsly? He needs to be at least high.
Lucas low? No.
Sonic needs his own tier below low.
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It will be interesting to see how much this list changes in a few years.
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Some beefs:
Olimar middle tier? Frsrsly? He needs to be at least high.
Lucas low? No.
Sonic needs his own tier below low.
Agreed on both accounts
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Wee-gee should been at least High Tier.
Olimar is a beast, but his recovery is what boots him lower on the list.
Lucas suprised me as well.
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who's wee-gee? of ur talkig about a wee-gee board,then BIG SHAME ON U!!!
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who's wee-gee? of ur talkig about a wee-gee board,then BIG SHAME ON U!!!
Luigi. I think. And why would they be talking about a wee-gee board in the Video Games section?
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Yeah it's Luigi
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Olimar is wrongly placed, with meteor smashes, pikmin and good smash attacks I think he should have Rob's place
He only has three real faults and those are necessary to keep him balanced: he is light, has bad air speed, and bad recovery but is air speed is balanced out by is mid-air meteor smash, being light fits with the game so no argument there, and his bad recovery is needed to keep him from being the out and out best like Fox and Falco like in SSBM
I'd put Toon Link bottom of high tier
Ike should be top of medium
Snake is well placed
Dedede surprises me
Rob is surprising I had him pegged at low
I'd give Rob's place to Olimar
Meta Knight is not surprising ( He is way too fast)
Lucas should be moved up His PK freeze can be nasty
I bet Sonic's placement makes Cat sad
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Olimar is wrongly placed, with meteor smashes, pikmin and good smash attacks I think he should have Rob's place
He only has three real faults and those are necessary to keep him balanced: he is light, has bad air speed, and bad recovery but is air speed is balanced out by is mid-air meteor smash, being light fits with the game so no argument there, and his bad recovery is needed to keep him from being the out and out best like Fox and Falco like in SSBM
Um, I would hope that this list isn't affected by *Final* Smashes, because in tourneys they don't allow them.
Even so, Kind DDD < Kirby. And Lucas > a heck of alot more people then he's above right now. 0_o I agree with everything else, R.O.B. can be insane if played right.
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You can't use smashes in tourneys?
I'm not talking about final smashes
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Olimar's range stinks.
He's predictable.
Recovery is crap.
No viable approach.
Trust me, I used to play as him, he's perfectly placed.
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Olimar's range stinks.
He's predictable.
Recovery is crap.
No viable approach.
Trust me, I used to play as him, he's perfectly placed.
Let's look at these one by one
1. Range stinks
Dedede's range is worse
2. He's predictable
Only when used by a noob
3.recovery is crap
Only when you have no Pikmin
4.No viable approach
There are plenty you just need to be creative. Olimar is a completely out of the box character with a completely unique fighting style that has never been seen before.
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Lucas is really good unless you've never faced a good lucas player before. He can survive pretty much anything and has some pretty good smashs/A attacks.
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Olimar's range stinks.
He's predictable.
Recovery is crap.
No viable approach.
Trust me, I used to play as him, he's perfectly placed.
Let's look at these one by one
1. Range stinks
Dedede's range is worse
2. He's predictable
Only when used by a noob
3.recovery is crap
Only when you have no Pikmin
4.No viable approach
There are plenty you just need to be creative. Olimar is a completely out of the box character with a completely unique fighting style that has never been seen before.
Obvious noob is obvious
1. D3's range is bad, yes, but his ground game is too good. He chaingrabs like a fiend.
2. Even when Mindgames are applied like a pro, Olimar's moveset is very situational. If his moves were a bit faster this would not be a problem. It's easy to tell when Olimar is going for the spike. And his airspeed doesn;t help either.
3. Obvious n00b is obvious.
Even if he does have pikmin his recovery condemns him to death. Knock him off, and edgehog. Where are his pikmin gonna latch on now? This plus the fact that he's light, he can easily get ko'd from at least 30%.
4. I wasn't talking about his playstyle. His OFFENSIVE approach is virtually non existant. Thus he's stuck as being a defensive character. Now this doesn't really bode well, considering the fact that his moveset is an OFFENSIVE moveset.
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Obvious noob is obvious
1. D3's range is bad, yes, but his ground game is too good. He chaingrabs like a fiend.
2. Even when Mindgames are applied like a pro, Olimar's moveset is very situational. If his moves were a bit faster this would not be a problem. It's easy to tell when Olimar is going for the spike. And his airspeed doesn;t help either.
3. Obvious n00b is obvious.
Even if he does have pikmin his recovery condemns him to death. Knock him off, and edgehog. Where are his pikmin gonna latch on now? This plus the fact that he's light, he can easily get ko'd from at least 30%.
4. I wasn't talking about his playstyle. His OFFENSIVE approach is virtually non existant. Thus he's stuck as being a defensive character. Now this doesn't really bode well, considering the fact that his moveset is an OFFENSIVE moveset.
1. His range isn't good but he can rack up so much damage with his Pikmin
2.spiking only helps in the air and most people can't counter it
3.That's if they can hit you with their powerful moves, and his recovery does suck but, he also has a full body shield
4. Olimar is not an assault character that is well carried over from the Pikmin games to Brawl, he throws his 'mins they rack up damage on opponents while he stays out of the way then after enough damage has been dealt he comes in for the kill
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Obvious noob is obvious
1. D3's range is bad, yes, but his ground game is too good. He chaingrabs like a fiend.
2. Even when Mindgames are applied like a pro, Olimar's moveset is very situational. If his moves were a bit faster this would not be a problem. It's easy to tell when Olimar is going for the spike. And his airspeed doesn;t help either.
3. Obvious n00b is obvious.
Even if he does have pikmin his recovery condemns him to death. Knock him off, and edgehog. Where are his pikmin gonna latch on now? This plus the fact that he's light, he can easily get ko'd from at least 30%.
4. I wasn't talking about his playstyle. His OFFENSIVE approach is virtually non existant. Thus he's stuck as being a defensive character. Now this doesn't really bode well, considering the fact that his moveset is an OFFENSIVE moveset.
1. His range isn't good but he can rack up so much damage with his Pikmin
2.spiking only helps in the air and most people can't counter it
3.That's if they can hit you with their powerful moves, and his recovery does suck but, he also has a full body shield
4. Olimar is not an assault character that is well carried over from the Pikmin games to Brawl, he throws his 'mins they rack up damage on opponents while he stays out of the way then after enough damage has been dealt he comes in for the kill
1. Pikmin are easily killed/evaded/
2. Spiking was only an example. And his spike doesn;t really have much priority.
3. Doesn;t have to be a powerful move, if he's off the stage at all, he's toast.
4. What? Is your opponent just standing there? Pikmin don't have any knock back, so most opponents would just ignore the pikmin, knock you off the stage, edgeguard, then edgehog for kill.
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Doesn't the purple one have knockback?
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d3 has bad range? what game are you guys playing? d3 has VERY good reach, and quite a bit of his moves are long range. he also has one of the most abuseable projectiles in brawl. d3 has been my second ever since brawl came out. clearly, if you think d3 has no range, then i suggest taking another look.
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The moves he does have range with either have alot of startup lag, or aren't really beneficial, ex: f-tilt
@RR: yes they do, but it's not that hard to see them coming.
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Olimar is not the easiest character to hit and he still has a full body shield. And a way to counter edge guarding is to have a Purple up first this will knock the character off the edge
Okay what about Snakes smashes? it's easy to tell when he is about to do one and you can easily knock him off of his helicopter thing
And I am not saying he's the best in the game but he is way under-ranked in this list and there are many people who agree with me
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The moves he does have range with either have alot of startup lag, or aren't really beneficial, ex: f-tilt
@RR: yes they do, but it's not that hard to see them coming.
puh-lease, waddle dee toss is unarguably the best move for projectile harassment in ssbb. they might not do alot of damage (normally), but the sheer amount of chaos it can create for your opponent is substantial:
- knockback
- sticks around after being thrown
- cannot be picked up by anyone other than a d3 player
- 20% for waddle doo
- 10% for gordo, random item
waddle dee toss is the bread and butter for any high calibur d3 player.
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Best harassment projectile are Pikmin, they stick to characters, whites can do 36%+ damage and they come back or Snake's Grenades, you hold them or throw immediately they land on the ground and explode after a while I think they are pretty annoying.
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Best harassment projectile are Pikmin, they stick to characters, whites can do 36%+ damage and they come back or Snake's Grenades, you hold them or throw immediately they land on the ground and explode after a while I think they are pretty annoying.
pikmen are far too easy to either kill, or simply ignore and go for the smash + edgehog. olimar is too, too easy to beat.
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Have a purple last in your order then they will be first on the recovery chain and then you knock the character off the ledge and you can grab it
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Yeah Chief I was talking about purple pikmin.
JSB, any experienced player wouldn't let that happen. Invincibility frames upon grabbing the ledge. All you have to do is anticipate the opp's up b. and evenOlimar knocks them off, after the up-b, Olimar is vulnerable to stage spikes.
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what about his invincibility frames? that's enough time to get back on the stage; anyway Olimar isn't the best but he should be moved up some
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No Olimar doesn't automatically get invinsibility frames. When you press A and pull yourself to the ledge, the you get teh_invincibility.
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exactly you do that immediately and they can't touch you for enough time to get back up on the stage
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exactly you do that immediately and they can't touch you for enough time to get back up on the stage
sorry, the elders have spoken. olimar blows chunks.
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There will always be a period of time before Olimar gets the invincibility....no matter how small/how many frames.....it can be done.
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exactly you do that immediately and they can't touch you for enough time to get back up on the stage
sorry, the elders have spoken. olimar blows chunks.
They are wrong, and the list is subject to change meaning they don't know everything
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"The list is subject to change"
Meaning that unless some new strat/AT/playstyle/potato is discovered, that is how the roster stands.
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exactly you do that immediately and they can't touch you for enough time to get back up on the stage
sorry, the elders have spoken. olimar blows chunks.
They are wrong, and the list is subject to change meaning they don't know everything
well, seeing as how its put out by proffessional ssbb players...i'd say i invest far more credibility in them than i do the single person that says 'they are wrong'.
besides, they were absolutely right about my main and second.
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Well there could be a new strategy and then they would be wrong that's why they have a list subject to change
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lol.
The biggest change in the melee list was Ice Climbers from low to high. ChuDat discovered a new playstyle, coined as "wobbling". Other than that, nothing significant really happens the lists. I mean sure, maybe some chracters get moved up/down one space, but that's only based on tourney results.
edit: It's the general consensus that nothing more will be discovered. Everything in melee was discovered by (at most) 2-3 months after release.
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The biggest change in the melee list was Ice Climbers from low to high. ChuDat discovered a new playstyle, coined as "wobbling".
It can happen ::)
Okay you win, but I can still hope
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Hey, I'm stuck with Sonic at low tier.....we're all left for dirt here. Don't let the list bother you. Just stick to your char and perservere. Just because a char is ranked as low doesn't mean they cant win.
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I know I played a wicked Samus and Link in Melee
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Oh, another complaint. Kirby should be high_tier. Ever see any youtube vids of him? He owns major bigtime.
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I haven't but Wario is well placed
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Hey, I'm stuck with Sonic at low tier.....we're all left for dirt here. Don't let the list bother you. Just stick to your char and perservere. Just because a char is ranked as low doesn't mean they cant win.
Agreed. Peach though middle tier has an unrivaled ability to recover, off setting her low to middle damage and knock back. She can be one PAIN to kill. I honestly would put her in high but the higher players say that she is middle. We all can disagree with what is said by our play styles. Just like some people consider some redemption cards to be nigh useless when in all honestly they can be awesome.
I haven't but Wario is well placed
Very, Wario is a BEAST.
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I have a friend who plays wicked Wario, our Wario/Olimar games are usually 60/40 Olimar's loss but he's played Melee since it came out
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Well Wario is like Olimar. Brand new many of the one things (wave dashing) from melee have either been nerfed or just totaly done away with. So it is even ground. Wario is just awesome with his motor cycle+Awesome recovery.
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Gamer4life's Wario is insane. Sure do miss that guy....
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Yeah, I miss lego too. I wish I had a wii so I could play yalls.
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Well, after my Xbox-360 being sent back and having nothing to do... I've been playing around with the different play styles of some random characters and my main 2 are now:
1. Sonic
2. Snake
*sighs* I miss my 360...
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Yeah, I miss lego too. I wish I had a wii so I could play yalls.
Christmas is there for a reason dude.... jkjk
*instapost* Figures......another Sonic....
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Another Sonic? So far you're the only person I've seen take him seriously.
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Lego was a sonic user too.
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Lucas is my favorite, followed closely by snake and link.
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I can't seem to get my online play working, so I've never played anyone from the boards.
Buuuut, I did watch Reggie pwn Chad Soderstrom's face, using Sonic. ::)
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Lucas is my favorite, followed closely by snake and link.
I hate your lucas. So much.
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Be unique, be Olimar
JK
(that might actually be a good sig hmm.........)
But Snake is a good character to start out with, good recovery, powerful moves, small learning curve, over all probably one of the best beginning characters
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I can't seem to get my online play working, so I've never played anyone from the boards.
Buuuut, I did watch Reggie pwn Chad Soderstrom's face, using Sonic. ::)
lol....hilarity at it's finest....
"What!?! Sonic can crawl under my arrows!?!?!?"
edit: Snake is easy to learn, but takes forever to master.
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edit: Snake is easy to learn, but takes forever to master.
Agreed, as is almost any character except Olimar, Sonic and Wolf; they are hard to learn and almost impossible to master. Any way Snake is probably the best place to start, along with Ike
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Again I must disagree, Wolf is too easy to learn. There is no mastery behind him. You can take him up in one day, and in that same day, pwn anyone.
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Me and my big bad noob self, hasn't even unlocked Wolf yet. ::)
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Again I must disagree, Wolf is too easy to learn. There is no mastery behind him. You can take him up in one day, and in that same day, pwn anyone.
Hmm..and the same isn't true of Falco? Hmm? Please, explain this. ;)
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Wolf is teh cheap.. Down smash is MK's dsmash on steroids. Aerials have no lag.
Only reason he's not high tiersis his lack of defensive options/recovery.
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I just saw some list that said Wolf had a high learning curve, but whatever all I'm saying is that Olimar & Sonic are hard to learn and being decent with them is quite a feat
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I honestly don't care about tier lists. Let the theorycrafters do what they want, it won't change what I do.
Also, Tier lists are not an accurate representation of how good characters are, because they are at least partly based on tournament results. People pick the characters that appear best at face value, play them, and win, so everyone else starts using them because they want to win. The characters everyone assumes are bad get left behind because no one plays them, thus no one wins tournaments with them. Tier lists mean very little in a real match (although certain characters have definite advantages against certain other characters). To have an accurate "tier list" you'd need to compare all the characters to every other character, and don't forget tier lists are assuming both characters are played to their fullest potential. That is never going to happen in a single match.
Btw, why doesn't Gamer4life play anymore? I haven't seen him on here in ages.
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Wolf is teh cheap.. Down smash is MK's dsmash on steroids. Aerials have no lag.
Only reason he's not high tiersis his lack of defensive options/recovery.
Erm...Kirby's Dsmash = highly situational but it has 1-hit KO's out your ear.
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I honestly don't care about tier lists. Let the theorycrafters do what they want, it won't change what I do.
Btw, why doesn't Gamer4life play anymore? I haven't seen him on here in ages.
Yeah I don't care for them either.
Gamer grew up. Last I heard he was in Canada on some internship. He also told he would still like to play like we all did before, but I haven't heard from him since.
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All I have to say about Link is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaik3Efwdxw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaik3Efwdxw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM)
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The opponent is a noob or the Link player is a national champion or both
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lol thats the best link in the states
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No, any decent MK player would not let himself get hit by a lava spout
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No, any decent MK player would not let himself get hit by a lava spout
Um, that has nothing to do with using MK. DSF is not a noob, Deva himself has said that he considers DSF to be better than him, but that he wasn't prepared to face a good Link (they're not exactly common). Both of these guys could probably 3-stock you.
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I need to play more. Last time i played was months ago..... :'(
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I need to play more. Last time i played was months ago..... :'(
Yeah you should, TheCat and I are really the only people who play now...wk4c, do you still play brawl?
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I play and yes they probably could three stock me, I'm just saying walking straight into the lava was not the smartest thing
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Yeah but link fell off when he really shouldn't of so it made it even.
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It's simple human errors. Even the pro's make errors. Well except M2K. He's a machine.
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I need to play more. Last time i played was months ago..... :'(
Yeah you should, TheCat and I are really the only people who play now...wk4c, do you still play brawl?
Heck yeah, I'm still kicking Cat's Sonic's butt with my Kirby. ;)
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Hmm..yeah ok.
I might be able to play tonight....
yes that's a challenge.
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Hmm..yeah ok.
I might be able to play tonight....
yes that's a challenge.
Heh, don't be so uptight...
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lol I was just messing....but really I wanna play you. I've only tried Shiek on like 3 ppl so far.
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I wanna play you too wk4c, I haven't played you for ages ;)