Author Topic: Guitar Praise, from the makers of Dance Praise (Read 33556 times)

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #75 on:** November 11, 2008, 02:35:23 PM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on November 11, 2008, 02:12:13 PM

However, does everything need to be christian based? (PLEASE note: I am not saying everything doesn't need to be appropriate/"christian". There is a difference between a christian game and a appropriate game that does not interfere with christian beliefs.) Take my earlier example of KOTOR. That game was pretty "christian" and didn't have much/any wrong with it (IMO). However, I really don't want to play a christian version of KOTOR where the player becomes a christian and you can't be a Sith *cry*. Sometimes, I want to play a RPG or a game that does not end with the gospel message at the end. (Not saying it isn't needed, but I just want video games to be alternate dimension a little bit).

My vision would be that you would not be as interested in being a Knight from the Old Republic when you can be one of David's Mighty Men (coming soon to a Gamestop near you).

dudester21397 · « **Reply #76 on:** November 11, 2008, 05:05:39 PM »

lol,nice

just better be good!!

lol

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #77 on:** November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM »

Exactly.

My problem is that "Christian" products tend to be more expensive and less fun than their secular counterparts. Slapping Jesus' face on an energy drink doesn't merit me paying twice as much for it. Taking Altoids minus the flavor, and changing the name to "Testamints" is not something good for the flock. What do we offer the world? Crappy knock-offs that we're expected to enjoy because they've got Jesus on them? With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

New Raven BR · « **Reply #78 on:** November 12, 2008, 01:50:31 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM

Exactly.

My problem is that "Christian" products tend to be more expensive and less fun than their secular counterparts. Slapping Jesus' face on an energy drink doesn't merit me paying twice as much for it. Taking Altoids minus the flavor, and changing the name to "Testamints" is not something good for the flock. What do we offer the world? Crappy knock-offs that we're expected to enjoy because they've got Jesus on them? With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

lol that's pretty gold there, pol about the spaghetti thing

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #79 on:** November 12, 2008, 07:46:16 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM

Exactly.

My problem is that "Christian" products tend to be more expensive and less fun than their secular counterparts. Slapping Jesus' face on an energy drink doesn't merit me paying twice as much for it. Taking Altoids minus the flavor, and changing the name to "Testamints" is not something good for the flock. What do we offer the world? Crappy knock-offs that we're expected to enjoy because they've got Jesus on them? With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

. I personally don't think I will ever perfer "David's Mighty Men" to KOTOR (using YMT's example). Sometimes, I just want something without a christian base.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #80 on:** November 12, 2008, 12:55:17 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM

Exactly.

My problem is that "Christian" products tend to be more expensive and less fun than their secular counterparts. Slapping Jesus' face on an energy drink doesn't merit me paying twice as much for it. Taking Altoids minus the flavor, and changing the name to "Testamints" is not something good for the flock. What do we offer the world? Crappy knock-offs that we're expected to enjoy because they've got Jesus on them? With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

Look at redemption it started of horrible (lim/prophets) and not that fun but rob learned while making it from his mistakes and improved it. Seemingly we don't learn from our mistakes in the "Christian" industry. There are exceptions over all but mostly they just keep popping out the same old stuff. A rip off of DDR, A rip off of monopoly, etc. not only is the quality lacking... the originality is lacking too!

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #81 on:** November 12, 2008, 03:22:00 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM

With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

Gee. I didn't realize that I was responsible for turning so many people away from God. I guess God is very angry with me. Luckily there are people like you who can draw so many people toward God to make up for my losses.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #82 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:15:20 PM »

I lol'd. Your sarcasm lacks reasoning.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #83 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:20:02 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 05:15:20 PM

I lol'd. Your sarcasm lacks reasoning.

Well naturally. That is why I am a complete failure as a Christian.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #84 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:26:32 PM »

It was funny the first time. Now I'm just bored.

In case you care about rational discussion, I'm going to point out that you're not the offender in my rant. Sure attitudes like yours don't help, but the problem is "Cristian" manufacturing companies who skimp on quality and originality and jack up the price. If a Buddhist came up to me and said, "hey, come be a Buddhist! We all love each other and listen to B music and watch B movies because they're made for Buddhists," I wouldn't even give it a second though.

And even then it's a subset of the bigger problem: Christianity has nothing to offer. Our music, movies, games, candy (somehow more Christian than Hershey's?), and universities are generally of lower quality. We don't act any different from the world. People who claim Christ get on TV and trick people into giving them money or thinking that they are healing people. We're even more divorced than secular people. Heck, even I look at Christianity and say "yuck!" Luckily for me I know Jesus and I know that the yuck has nothing to do with him, but not everyone has that advantage. We're low-quality-ing people into hell.

dudester21397 · « **Reply #85 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:32:21 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 05:26:32 PM

It was funny the first time. Now I'm just bored.

In case you care about rational discussion, I'm going to point out that you're not the offender in my rant. Sure attitudes like yours don't help, but the problem is "Cristian" manufacturing companies who skimp on quality and originality and jack up the price. If a Buddhist came up to me and said, "hey, come be a Buddhist! We all love each other and listen to B music and watch B movies because they're made for Buddhists," I wouldn't even give it a second though.

And even then it's a subset of the bigger problem: Christianity has nothing to offer. Our music, movies, games, candy (somehow more Christian than Hershey's?), and universities are generally of lower quality. We don't act any different from the world. People who claim Christ get on TV and trick people into giving them money or thinking that they are healing people. We're even more divorced than secular people. Heck, even I look at Christianity and say "yuck!" Luckily for me I know Jesus and I know that the yuck has nothing to do with him, but not everyone has that advantage. We're low-quality-ing people into hell.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #86 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:37:17 PM »

Your opinion is noted, however the quote from an earlier post...

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 01:48:48 AM

With a large number of people holding your viewpoint, YMT, combined with the fact that Christians don't know why they believe what they believe and therefore don't follow it, is why so many people look at Christians today and say "YUCK! no thanks, I'll be agnostic/new age/church of the flying spaghetti monster/whatever."

...does not say that. You singled out my opinion and attached it to a conclusion that people like me drive people away from God. There is no other interpretation of the quote. I'm not sure how that is anything other than a personal attack. You have no knowledge of me or of my effect on unbelievers. Any impact my life has had to further God's Kingdom is irrelevant to you because of my opinion about Christian media. Beyond that, however, you have concluded that any effect I may have had would have to be negative. Your clairvoyance astounds me.

You can hold whatever opinion you want. But when you make statements like the one I quoted above, you bring the judgment of a Holy God upon yourself. You will be judged by the same measure.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #87 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:39:36 PM »

Your leaps in logic are baffling. It's a good thing you're a math teacher and not a English/Philosophy/Logic/insert liberal art here professor.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #88 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:50:37 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 05:39:36 PM

It's a good thing you're a math teacher and not a English/Philosophy/Logic/insert liberal art here professor.

Indeed.

Since your continued personal attacks are what I see as driving people away from God, you are now guilty by the measure which you judged me by.

Time to pray.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #89 on:** November 12, 2008, 06:02:12 PM »

Time to humble.

lightningninja · « **Reply #90 on:** November 12, 2008, 08:16:35 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 05:26:32 PM

And even then it's a subset of the bigger problem: Christianity has nothing to offer.

That's a pretty bold statement....

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #91 on:** November 12, 2008, 08:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 06:02:12 PM

Time to humble.

Exactly. We both need to pray for each other to accomplish God's Will.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #92 on:** November 12, 2008, 10:31:14 PM »

To try to get this discussion back on topic, and off individuals...
It seems like the two sides being presented are basically this:

1 - Christians should judge quality (of music, movies, games, etc.) through the perspective of God (message aligning with His will, bringing Him glory, etc.), instead of through the perspective of man (technical skill in acting, instrument playing, game mechanics, etc.)

2 - Having the above perspective leads to "Christian" translating to "2nd rate" in the eyes of the world and this turns people away from Christianity.

I think that the obvious problem with perspective #2 is that while people may not be drawn to Christianity because we have the best movies, music, and games, that those things shouldn't be what draws people to Christianity anyway. I didn't become a Christian because of their entertainment. I became a Christian because the Holy Spirit worked in my heart and helped me to see who God was in the universe that He created, and because I came to believe in the Word of God.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #93 on:** November 12, 2008, 10:46:09 PM »

God came to give us life and life more abundantly, not a second-rate life. Why can't Christians be the best? We have truth, we are best able to understand beauty, and aught to be well equipped to show goodness. So why do we settle for mediocrity?

Note: When I said Christianity has nothing to offer, I mean it appears to have nothing to offer to the world.

Also, this is a video game forum so we're arguing about entertainment, but to your "I didn't become a Christian to be entertained" business, I answer that the trash in the entertainment market stems from the same root that puts trash in Christian arts. Music, paintings, architecture, these aren't just entertainment at all! The fine arts are essential to life. Christians aught to believe in life abundantly in more ways than taping up their mouths to protest abortion.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #94 on:** November 12, 2008, 10:58:33 PM »

Yes God wants us to have abundant life. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we will be able to sing better harmony than a non-Christian.

I agree with you that as Christians we should try to make the best music, movies, and games that we can. However, I disagree that someone who was going to become a Christian, changes their mind and decides not to because the movie "Left Behind" seems lame.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #95 on:** November 12, 2008, 11:03:46 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 10:46:09 PM

God came to give us life and life more abundantly, not a second-rate life.

My prayer is that someday you will see that the more abundant joy comes from building people up rather than tearing them down.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #96 on:** November 12, 2008, 11:05:30 PM »

Quote

1 - Christians should judge quality (of music, movies, games, etc.) through the perspective of God (message aligning with His will, bringing Him glory, etc.), instead of through the perspective of man (technical skill in acting, instrument playing, game mechanics, etc.)

2 - Having the above perspective leads to "Christian" translating to "2nd rate" in the eyes of the world and this turns people away from Christianity.

While I agree with #2, I DO NOT agree that having Christian stuff turns people away from God. I just said that I don't enjoy it as much speaking only on an entertainment level.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 12, 2008, 11:03:46 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 10:46:09 PM
God came to give us life and life more abundantly, not a second-rate life.

My prayer is that someday you will see that the more abundant joy comes from building people up rather than tearing them down.

Come on YMT.... WE were trying to get this discussion off of individuals.

Quote

To try to get this discussion back on topic, and off individuals...

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #97 on:** November 13, 2008, 03:47:46 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 12, 2008, 11:03:46 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 10:46:09 PM
God came to give us life and life more abundantly, not a second-rate life.

My prayer is that someday you will see that the more abundant joy comes from building people up rather than tearing them down.

The Irony that this is tearing him down by saying he is wrong is not lost on me. Now would you two stop? Both of you hold an equally valid view.

How can we witness to other gamers by showing them half way done games? We can't. Sure it may not win 99% of souls to have a well done game but if it saves 1...isn't it worth it?

YMT does have a point christian content (Not quality) is better for anything, be it game or book.

Now PLEASE stop. You both are talking about bringing people to God and looking different from the world and you BOTH are tearing each other down. Be it meant that way or not it is happening. Please stop.

Anyways back on topic...
I say #2 CAN turn people away from God. If we won't even put enough effort into making a good game (That is supposed to support and show support for our God) why would we put effort into worshiping him?

dudester21397 · « **Reply #98 on:** November 13, 2008, 07:54:09 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on November 13, 2008, 03:47:46 AM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 12, 2008, 11:03:46 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 12, 2008, 10:46:09 PM
God came to give us life and life more abundantly, not a second-rate life.

My prayer is that someday you will see that the more abundant joy comes from building people up rather than tearing them down.
The Irony that this is tearing him down by saying he is wrong is not lost on me. Now would you two stop? Both of you hold an equally valid view.

How can we witness to other gamers by showing them half way done games? We can't. Sure it may not win 99% of souls to have a well done game but if it saves 1...isn't it worth it?

YMT does have a point christian content (Not quality) is better for anything, be it game or book.

Now PLEASE stop. You both are talking about bringing people to God and looking different from the world and you BOTH are tearing each other down. Be it meant that way or not it is happening. Please stop.

Anyways back on topic...
I say #2 CAN turn people away from God. If we won't even put enough effort into making a good game (That is supposed to support and show support for our God) why would we put effort into worshiping him?

soul seeker · « **Reply #99 on:** November 13, 2008, 11:37:00 AM »

By some of your definitions of "good" movies and games (those that hold Prof's viewpoint #2), I don't think Christians will ever compete.
Look at one of the top movies, even "voted" by on this board: The Dark Knight
It is a very dark and violent movie that had some disturbing themes. Christian writers and directors aren't going to make a movie like that. So in that respect, Christians are going to compete against an "A" movie like Batman.
Look at some of the top selling games: Halo, Brawl, KOTOR
All of them are violent oriented. (Guitar Hero has more sexual theme in my mind.) Again, I believe that Christian games will ever compete because a Christian designer will not make a game of that central theme. Game quality can be overlooked depending on the theme.

Unfortunately, in movies and games, the two top sellers (which "coincidentally" are not Christian) are sex and violence. Coming from these themes, Christian productS will NEVER compete.
The only reason I haven't bought Guitar Praise yet is because it was made for computer. That was the fact that turned me off. My laptop screen is too small to play effectively when I'm used to playing to a much larger television screen. Bummer too because it looks awesome.

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Author Topic: Guitar Praise, from the makers of Dance Praise (Read 33556 times)

dudester21397

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