Author Topic: Good games on the wii (Read 59168 times)

Master KChief · « **Reply #275 on:** January 13, 2010, 04:45:01 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on January 13, 2010, 04:38:13 PM

What if I said the people I know are over 9000!!! ?

what if i said the people i know are over 9000? still...

9000 + people that come into my store > 9000

The Schaef · « **Reply #276 on:** January 13, 2010, 05:12:49 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 04:41:39 PM

yours is far more limited to mine.

That's not the kind of assumption I would make about you if our roles were reversed, but I see you're still content to plug in identical numbers on both sides of the "inequation". As I've said, I think it's more than adequate to support the statement I've made.

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really? because you dont think customers dont tell me what they think either?

Never said that. I only said that I do not have the additional confounding factor of incentivizing a purchase of one item over another.

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i said people that only have a wii make biased purchasing decisions. again, twisting my words.

That's the exact same thing I just said. People own wii plus people don't own other consoles equals ALL their purchasing decisions are biased. Tell me what you're saying different.

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because that is one strong reason i observe people buying a particular console in my store.

No, you said it is ALWAYS THE REASON, not "one strong reason", but ALWAYS THE REASON. You have also said that when people ask you to differentiate between them, exclusive titles are what you mention. Nothing else. I even asked you, and you added nothing.

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dont recall where i actually did that. its pretty obvious pepole buy consoles because of different reasons. where did i even try disputing this?

"if you only have a wii, then thats unfortunate and all your purchases are based on personal bias."
ALL your purchases - no exceptions. Personal bias - no other reasons, no different reasons.

"99% of clueless people that come through my store, deciding which console to purchase... it always comes down to the exclusivity of a consoles games."

Additionally, the entire premise of my argument is that there are reasons other than exclusivity that drive people to a system, and every response of yours has been an attempt to say I'm wrong and you're right, and you know better than me. In addition to these exact quotes from you, the only way I can be wrong is if exclusivity is either the only reason, or so primary a reason that no other reasons even matter. Your continued efforts to prove me wrong - and additionally, ignorant and irrational - and not even take five seconds to acknowledge my simple point which you now say is obvious, that leads me to believe you are committed to this idea of exclusivity to the exception of anything else. If you believed my statement was rational or even obvious, you wouldn't fight so hard to disprove it and disqualify my observations.

I happen to think there are a lot of reasons a console can be a worthy investment. If a multi-platform title appears on that console, that's a plus for it. The fact that it's a wash compared to other consoles doesn't matter, because a console with that game is a better purchase than a console without that game. You apply this logic to exclusive titles, but when I specifically asked, what if I have a multi-platform title that happens not to appear on this one console, you didn't even register the question.

There are significant differences in cost, and if I walk into the store with $300 and two kids under ten, I'm not going to walk out with a PS3, one controller, no HDMI and no games, versus a Wii with a family-friendly pack-in and a complete set of controllers. I'm not going to walk out with the 250GB version at all. And in your store, I don't get to walk out with anything.

There are significant differences in the hardware and services for each console. The Wii has motion control, the X-box has a vastly superior online experience, and the PS3 (with cable purchase) has bleeding-edge graphics and can play Blu-Ray movies. I consider those significant reasons to look at a console aside from the cost and aside from which games go on which consoles.

Now just turn down your flamethrower for five seconds and be real: what is so ridiculous about any of those statements to deserve this kind of reaction?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #277 on:** January 13, 2010, 05:32:32 PM »

There is little doubt in my mind that the leading reason people purchase an Xbox or PS3 is because of system exclusives. I own a 306 due to system exclusives. However, the Wii is not sold because of that. The target audience of the Wii are people like SS or YMT, who may not normally purchase a gaming system, but decide to purchase a Wii because it has been specifically marketed as a system to be enjoyed by the whole family, not just people who enjoy good graphics all the time or people who want to shoot you in the face. While I personally do not understand why they do not enjoy these things, the numbers do not lie. Familes are purchasing the Wii, so clearly the marketing as worked. I will never own a Wii because I feel it's controls are crude and it's graphics in the past. This, however, does not make the Wii worse on a global scale. It simply means I do not like it.

Master KChief · « **Reply #278 on:** January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on January 13, 2010, 05:12:49 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 04:41:39 PM
yours is far more limited to mine.

That's not the kind of assumption I would make about you if our roles were reversed, but I see you're still content to plug in identical numbers on both sides of the "inequation". As I've said, I think it's more than adequate to support the statement I've made.

Quote
really? because you dont think customers dont tell me what they think either?

Never said that. I only said that I do not have the additional confounding factor of incentivizing a purchase of one item over another.

Quote
i said people that only have a wii make biased purchasing decisions. again, twisting my words.

That's the exact same thing I just said. People own wii plus people don't own other consoles equals ALL their purchasing decisions are biased. Tell me what you're saying different.

Quote
because that is one strong reason i observe people buying a particular console in my store.

No, you said it is ALWAYS THE REASON, not "one strong reason", but ALWAYS THE REASON. You have also said that when people ask you to differentiate between them, exclusive titles are what you mention. Nothing else. I even asked you, and you added nothing.

Quote
dont recall where i actually did that. its pretty obvious pepole buy consoles because of different reasons. where did i even try disputing this?

"if you only have a wii, then thats unfortunate and all your purchases are based on personal bias."
ALL your purchases - no exceptions. Personal bias - no other reasons, no different reasons.

"99% of clueless people that come through my store, deciding which console to purchase... it always comes down to the exclusivity of a consoles games."

Additionally, the entire premise of my argument is that there are reasons other than exclusivity that drive people to a system, and every response of yours has been an attempt to say I'm wrong and you're right, and you know better than me. In addition to these exact quotes from you, the only way I can be wrong is if exclusivity is either the only reason, or so primary a reason that no other reasons even matter. Your continued efforts to prove me wrong - and additionally, ignorant and irrational - and not even take five seconds to acknowledge my simple point which you now say is obvious, that leads me to believe you are committed to this idea of exclusivity to the exception of anything else. If you believed my statement was rational or even obvious, you wouldn't fight so hard to disprove it and disqualify my observations.

I happen to think there are a lot of reasons a console can be a worthy investment. If a multi-platform title appears on that console, that's a plus for it. The fact that it's a wash compared to other consoles doesn't matter, because a console with that game is a better purchase than a console without that game. You apply this logic to exclusive titles, but when I specifically asked, what if I have a multi-platform title that happens not to appear on this one console, you didn't even register the question.

There are significant differences in cost, and if I walk into the store with $300 and two kids under ten, I'm not going to walk out with a PS3, one controller, no HDMI and no games, versus a Wii with a family-friendly pack-in and a complete set of controllers. I'm not going to walk out with the 250GB version at all. And in your store, I don't get to walk out with anything.

There are significant differences in the hardware and services for each console. The Wii has motion control, the X-box has a vastly superior online experience, and the PS3 (with cable purchase) has bleeding-edge graphics and can play Blu-Ray movies. I consider those significant reasons to look at a console aside from the cost and aside from which games go on which consoles.

Now just turn down your flamethrower for five seconds and be real: what is so ridiculous about any of those statements to deserve this kind of reaction?

im not going to argue with you anymore. bottom line: i know what my customers want because they tell me. i know why they want it because they tell me. the day you work in the videogame industry and have actual personal experience and crediblity to back you up, then come talk to me. the day you can make impartial observations outside your little circle of 'friends, family, acquaintences' (lulz), then come talk to me. otherwise, theres nothing more you need to say to me.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #279 on:** January 13, 2010, 08:41:06 PM »

Last person who said that got blown up.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #280 on:** January 13, 2010, 09:02:17 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM

i know what my customers want because they tell me.

I'm a Gamestop customer and I want a Wii.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #281 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:03:50 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 13, 2010, 09:02:17 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
i know what my customers want because they tell me.

I'm a Gamestop customer and I want a Wii.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #282 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:27:30 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM

im not going to argue with you anymore. bottom line: i know what my customers want because they tell me. i know why they want it because they tell me. the day you work in the videogame industry and have actual personal experience and crediblity to back you up, then come talk to me. the day you can make impartial observations outside your little circle of 'friends, family, acquaintences' (lulz), then come talk to me. otherwise, theres nothing more you need to say to me.

How about me then? It's uncanny that after the mountain of evidence Schaef has presented, especially compared to your microscopic collection of counter-evidence, that your position has not changed in the slightest. I'm beginning to wonder whether or not you understand the basic rule of argument: The one with the best evidence wins. If you present no evidence (or in your case, moldy, repackaged evidence), your position and your argument will not improve.

And returning to exclusivity, I'll just say that I would likely never, ever, buy a console with only exclusive games, because some of the best games are multi-platform.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 13, 2010, 11:03:50 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 13, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
i know what my customers want because they tell me.

I'm a Gamestop customer and I want a Wii.

Sign me up as well.

Ironica · « **Reply #283 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 13, 2010, 11:03:50 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 13, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
i know what my customers want because they tell me.

I'm a Gamestop customer and I want a Wii.

O wait...we already have ours

redemption101 · « **Reply #284 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:36:56 PM »

at least the wii makes money........

the ps3 just drains it.........

support nintendo buy a wiii
Support nintendo buy a ps3

Master KChief · « **Reply #285 on:** January 14, 2010, 12:34:13 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 13, 2010, 11:27:30 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
im not going to argue with you anymore. bottom line: i know what my customers want because they tell me. i know why they want it because they tell me. the day you work in the videogame industry and have actual personal experience and crediblity to back you up, then come talk to me. the day you can make impartial observations outside your little circle of 'friends, family, acquaintences' (lulz), then come talk to me. otherwise, theres nothing more you need to say to me.
How about me then? It's uncanny that after the mountain of evidence Schaef has presented, especially compared to your microscopic collection of counter-evidence, that your position has not changed in the slightest. I'm beginning to wonder whether or not you understand the basic rule of argument: The one with the best evidence wins. If you present no evidence (or in your case, moldy, repackaged evidence), your position and your argument will not improve.

And returning to exclusivity, I'll just say that I would likely never, ever, buy a console with only exclusive games, because some of the best games are multi-platform.

dont even get me started on you, because you've basically taken the yes-man approach to this whole thing, which is pretty sad. first, you made no sense whatsoever in claiming that people that buy consoles based on exclusive games are, in your words, 'arrogant, ignorant, misplaced priorities' (which, by the way, all mean completely different things), YET i can say the exact same thing about you who, presumably by the last sentence of the above quote, make your console purchasing decisions based on multi-platform games (which doesnt make sense in itself: if a game is on all consoles, why would that possibly be a deciding factor in which console you want to purchase?). people who purchase consoles are not arrogant...nor are people who purchase consoles based on multi-platform games (

).

second...where is this so called 'mountain of evidence'? there is NO evidence, and there never was. this has all just basically come down to a 'he says, she says' argument, with one side that has firsthand experience with the videogame industry and can draw impartial observatons based on the amount of customers they have been exposed to over the years, and the other side that has not and likes to play word/logic mindgames. i really care less who you side with, because that doesnt change a thing i know, but at least try to know what you're talking about.

im done arguing here. its really inconsequential to me which console you guys want/own/buy, because i get paid regardless of who buys what. its all just a matter of preference.

to end...

i'm a gamestop manager, and i loathe the wii. xbox 360 all the way.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #286 on:** January 14, 2010, 01:09:30 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 14, 2010, 12:34:13 AM

im done arguing here. its really inconsequential to me which console you guys want/own/buy, because i get paid regardless of who buys what. its all just a matter of preference.

If that were true, you would have stopped arguing a long time ago. I have a degree in psychology*, and I've read studies that tell me that when someone argues for as long as you have, he's trying to influence others' decisions. And I've talked to a lot of people about the subject.

*Not actually true.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #287 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:14:23 AM »

I am a psychology major and I just wanted to say that the number of incidences of the false consensus effect and confirmation bias, and belief bias/perseverance in this thread amuse me greatly.

It's a funny concept that a person thinks they can make an "objective" observation based on interaction with a limited group of people, either in their own life or through those they encounter in a fixed environment is... amusing is the polite way to say it.

It's important to remember that many people who purchase games and gaming systems don't go to gamestop. The Wii is marketed as a family friendly system and is sold at various stores that families have a tendency to frequent (such as walmart, etc) that, believe it or not, actually contribute to sales! Many gamestop patrons happen to be those going out to a store explicitly to buy game(s) and as such also have a tendency to be so called "serious gamers."

Also, I'm a gamestop customer, and I love my Wii

I appreciate good graphics in games, but having fun with them is way more important to me. I don't enjoy gun games (in concept or in practice). Then again, I'll also acknowledge that I'm not a "hardcore gamer" by any means.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #288 on:** January 14, 2010, 08:17:48 AM »

The thing I get a chuckle out of is this. The Xbox360 could be found at almost any game stop 1 year after its release. The wii on the other hand you had to luck into (at least around here) a year after its release.

The Schaef · « **Reply #289 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:13:16 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 13, 2010, 07:36:58 PM

the day you work in the videogame industry and have actual personal experience and crediblity to back you up, then come talk to me. the day you can make impartial observations outside your little circle of 'friends, family, acquaintences' (lulz), then come talk to me. otherwise, theres nothing more you need to say to me.

Once again, you have no answer to basic questions. You just got finished saying that my position is "pretty obvious" and that you "have not disputed it". But you spent the last day telling me that my observations have no credibility and I can't possibly know what you know because I'm not a manager of a video game store. But you can't even tell me WHY my observations are wrong, and then you try and say that you NEVER said I was wrong! Give me a break! You are STILL trying to say I don't know what I'm talking about.

If an observation is obvious and beyond dispute (even though you argued against me every single time I suggested it), then that sounds like something someone could arrive at with even a limited amount of exposure and a measure of common sense. Which is weird, because that is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.

You accuse me of twisting your words about Wii owners and how ALL their purchases are the result of bias, but you can't even EXPLAIN to me what I'm misinterpreting.

You first tell me that my list of quality Wii titles is no good because not all of the titles are exclusive. But you can't tell me WHY it matters if a game I play on this console can also be played on that console.

But then you say you'll sell someone a console to play certain games even if they are NOT exclusive, and that you have been saying that all along! Well, by discounting games from my list because they're not exclusive, then it's NOT what you have been saying all along. It is the opposite.

Bottom line, I have asked numerous questions of you to try and understand your reasoning better, and all you have given in response is snide remarks, personal attacks and reversals of your statements. What's interesting to me is that you claim I just like to argue for no reason other than to argue, or to "play mindgames". Yeah, it's a real mindgame to make a basic statement that you later claim is "pretty obvious". My response to your posts has been to ask questions. Your response to my posts has been a refusal to explain your position combined with outward contempt for anyone who dares not just accept your statements as completely right without question. Makes me wonder who the real argumentative person is in this equation, and how I'm supposed to take any of this mess seriously.

Quote from: Arch Angel on January 14, 2010, 04:14:23 AM

I am a psychology major and I just wanted to say that the number of incidences of the false consensus effect and confirmation bias, and belief bias/perseverance in this thread amuse me greatly. It's a funny concept that a person thinks they can make an "objective" observation based on interaction with a limited group of people, either in their own life or through those they encounter in a fixed environment is... amusing is the polite way to say it.

For my part, I'll ask you not to confuse "objective" with "scientific". I have disclosed up front my awareness that my dataset is limited, and I have drawn no conclusions about cause or consensus, except to say I have not seen a consensus appear. The range of responses I have seen among even a small sample has prompted me to keep an open mind about what people want and why. Talking about the things they look for has nothing to do with the things I look for, and nothing to do with which system I would buy if the money was in my hand. I would think taking my opinion out of the equation is the textbook definition of being objective. But I never tried to make those observations anything more than they are.

ACe · « **Reply #290 on:** January 14, 2010, 11:34:39 AM »

not to interrupt you guys but, I got my wii from walmart. I wanted to get it at gamestop to save money but they didnt have it. My picks for wii games are the metroid 3, new mario, SSBB, SWTFU, also the games on the virtual console are unlimited.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #291 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:44:01 PM »

Ok, idea to possibly settle this.

Make a list of the games you would buy a system to play. If you already have the games, just list them anyways. I want to see how many games people would WANT to play on their prefered system, since the Wii owners only seem to be listing like, 5 games. Finally, feel free to list multiconsole games, I just want to see how many games people play or want to play on their systems. I may list some stuff I play/want to play on PC, but if I do, I'll be fair and only list games that came out during this "current gen" of systems.

Anyone up for this?

Red · « **Reply #292 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:52:18 PM »

1 SSMB 2 star wars the force unleashed 3 mario cart wii 3 pokemon platinum 4 LOZ photom hourglass 5 no idea

soul seeker · « **Reply #293 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:59:35 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 14, 2010, 03:44:01 PM

Ok, idea to possibly settle this.

Make a list of the games you would buy a system to play. If you already have the games, just list them anyways. I want to see how many games people would WANT to play on their prefered system, since the Wii owners only seem to be listing like, 5 games. Finally, feel free to list multiconsole games, I just want to see how many games people play or want to play on their systems. I may list some stuff I play/want to play on PC, but if I do, I'll be fair and only list games that came out during this "current gen" of systems.

Anyone up for this?

To be fair, I did buy a PS2 for my personal gain. They were the only system to have Star Wars Battlefront 1 & 2 (the only FPS I play) Also, I bought NCAA basketball on it because of the Carolina cover.
Nintendo has everything else I want as per my previous post including the Exclusives I like (Legend of Zelda)

The Schaef · « **Reply #294 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:09:17 PM »

There's nothing to settle, because that can only happen when all involved parties have an interest in resolving the matter.

My previous list was considerably more than five but maybe you're not counting me since I do not own a Wii. But the games I would be interested to have for it (I won't list every game in a franchise but I think there will be plenty enumerated even if you just count them all as one game:
- Mario
- Zelda
- Metroid
- Brawl
- Guitar Hero
- Rock Band
- Raving Rabbids et al
- Okami
- Zack and Wiki
- Muramasa
- Super Paper Mario
- New SMB
- Mario Kart
- Punch Out
- The Conduit
- Little King's Story
- Trauma Center
- Boom Blox
- de Blob
- Excitetruck/bots
- DBZ Budowhatever
- Batallion Wars
- Geometry Wars
- Klonoa
- Star Wars: Force Unleashed
- Lego Star Wars/Indy/Batman
- some other games for grown-up persons, something about an angry planet, or badness that lives in the area, or the absence of protagonists, or an uprooting from space which is no longer alive.

Those are retail games only. There are also Wiiware titles like World of Goo, Strong Bad, Mega Man 9/10, Rebirth titles like Castlevania, and Alien Crush, and countless VC titles from my salad days.

Typically, if there are exclusives I want to play on another console, I wait until the next generation comes out and pushes the price down well under a hundred bucks, and then pick up titles for that. Example: ten years ago my console of choice was the N64, but I got a $35 used Playstation to play Tekken and FF. Five years ago I acquired a Gamecube, but I play my brother-in-law's PS2 for the various platformers he has, from the Ratchet series and Jak series, and of course GH2.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #295 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:13:10 PM »

^ Thats exactly the kind of list I was looking for. I dont own a 360 so I'll let MKC do that list... seeing as hes the one who supports it the most.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #296 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:20:57 PM »

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic (and MMORG when it comes out)
Arkham Asylum (I have heard good things from reputable sources)

All this will show is my point on marketing. Wii is marketed to families, and so the games listed by those who own Wiis are more likely to be non-FPS/sports type, the types of games typically preferred by "hardcore" gamers.

[modbreak=Schaef]It also shows your preference for M-rated games. Please note forum policy.[/modbreak]

The Schaef · « **Reply #297 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:30:32 PM »

FWIW, at least half of the items on your original list were not "fps-types" either.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #298 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:39:53 PM »

http://wii.ign.com/articles/105/1054621p1.html

I just found this article that sums up my thoughts on the wii exactly.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #299 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:44:40 PM »

My bad Schaef. They have been mentioned throughout the thread. I assumed in list form, without discussion, would be acceptable. I need to add to the list anyway, those games that come to mind initially when I think of an Xbox. Kchief will probably add a lot of niche-er stuff I don't think of right away.

Good article Lambo. I concur with it.

News:

Author Topic: Good games on the wii (Read 59168 times)

The Schaef

Warrior_Monk

Ironica

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo