Author Topic: General Type 2 advice  (Read 3456 times)

Offline DDiceRC

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General Type 2 advice
« on: June 25, 2013, 09:52:43 PM »
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I'm just getting into Type 2, and am building my first deck. I know the offense and defense I am using are not considered "Tier 1," but I'm building to have fun. The advice I want (for now) is more general.

1) As a general principle, what is a good breakdown of Hero/GE, EC/EE, and "other" cards, percentage wise? I know this will vary by deck, but what are some benchmarks a newbie could start with? Right now I'm about 40/40/20, but I wonder if I need more "other" cards.

2) Within Hero/GE and EC/EE, what's a good ratio? In T1 I leaned toward slightly under 1:1 on offense, and less on (mostly minimal) defense. I'm guessing a ratio of just under 1 enh/character should be OK.

3) How many duplicates do you use as a general rule? Should I look to max out with 4 each of fewer cards, or diversify more with maybe 2 of each? Or max a couple of important cards while spreading out the rest?

I know that there is no one proportion, but I'm looking for some general guidelines to work around.

Thanks!
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Offline MitchRobStew

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 10:14:19 PM »
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I'm just getting into Type 2, and am building my first deck. I know the offense and defense I am using are not considered "Tier 1," but I'm building to have fun. The advice I want (for now) is more general.

1) As a general principle, what is a good breakdown of Hero/GE, EC/EE, and "other" cards, percentage wise? I know this will vary by deck, but what are some benchmarks a newbie could start with? Right now I'm about 40/40/20, but I wonder if I need more "other" cards.

I generally building anywhere from 37/37/26 to 40/40/20.  Generally build 100-105. As far as enhancements go I wouldn't play more than 16 on offense or defense.  You'll lead to hand clog, and end up discarding a ton.  I try and avoid using more than 2 copies of unique characters unless they are extremely vital to a core strategy.  Again leads to hand clog and discarding with more.

2) Within Hero/GE and EC/EE, what's a good ratio? In T1 I leaned toward slightly under 1:1 on offense, and less on (mostly minimal) defense. I'm guessing a ratio of just under 1 enh/character should be OK.

Around 1:1 is fine for starting.  Depends upon the deck type.  Some function better with fewer enhancement due to strength of character abilities others rely more on enhancements.

3) How many duplicates do you use as a general rule? Should I look to max out with 4 each of fewer cards, or diversify more with maybe 2 of each? Or max a couple of important cards while spreading out the rest?

Really depends upon the deck but generally I'll max out the best 2 to 3 enhancements or come close to it (in a Royalty offense maxing out Valley of Salt and Unified Kingdom for example).  The go from there depending on what you want to accomplish on offense.

I know that there is no one proportion, but I'm looking for some general guidelines to work around

Thanks!

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 11:04:54 PM »
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Also, it'd be very beneficial to you to look through the complete decks posted for different Type 2 decks that people have posted to see what ratios worked for them and what could work for you as well. But yes, generally, I agree with all of MitchRobStew's comments. He's an experienced Type 2 player against whom I have a lot of fun playing against even though he usually wins. :P

Offline The Guardian

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 11:18:54 PM »
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I use 42/42/21 quite often (or 44/44/24 if I make the deck 112). Obviously it also depends on your deck's strategy as you may want to utilize several copies of certain artifacts or Sites to enhance your offense or defense.

I like Hero/GE ratio to be pretty close to 1:1 with maybe 1-2 more GE. If you utilize cards like Chariot of Fire or other Hero recursion cards then you can afford to have a few less Heroes. Same is true for EC/EE ratio (1:1) but maybe a few more EE (or Curses as those are multi-functional.)

Duplicates are tricky. Generally I don't use more than 2 copies of a unique character unless it's a Hero like Angel under the Oak, where if I end up having 2 at once, it's easy to get one back in my deck for later use.

Duplicate enhancements depends on deck strategy. Some strategies are better suited for having a wider variety of options for winning battles, and other strategies are stronger if they are more focused. For example, if I'm using 16 GE, sometimes I may have 4 copies of 4 different enhancements. Other strategies I might have 3 copies of 5 difference enhancements plus an extra Covenant.

One last piece of advice I like to give (be it for T1 or T2) is to try and use as many cards that are "multi-purposed" as you can. Covenants and Curses are the best example. Having characters like Uzzah allows you to not waste artifacts that you don't need in a particular game (for example you have Site access artifacts but your opponent is not using Sites). I am Holy can allow you to make use of enhancements you might otherwise need to discard due to hand clog.

Glad you are venturing into the world of T2, hit me up if you're interested in trying a game online.  :)
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 11:28:27 PM »
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All of this is great advice, but I have two words for you that need to be considered with every T2 deck you make: Bronze Laver.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 12:21:18 AM »
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All of this is great advice, but I have two words for you that need to be considered with every T2 deck you make: Bronze Laver.
A great card to be sure, but one that should be used with caution. You don't always have to attack, but you always need to be ready to defend. Sending your defensive cards to the bottom of the deck can prove costly.*


*Especially if you live in Minnesota where Orange is banned.  ;)
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EYES_on_ZION

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 07:00:18 AM »
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In my first year in type 2 ive learned that your selection of artifacts, curses, and covenants can make a world of difference.  Cards like household idols, rain becomes dust, captured ark, hez signant ring, bronze laver, etc can really shift the game. Usually with my artifacts I try to hit all angles. A hez ring or two to shut down any would be searching,  rain becomes dust and gifts of the magi for anti-speed/anti-mayhem, household idols to stop a heavy banding offense (be mindful that it is a double edged sword that can hurt you too) unholy writ if I feel I need defensive support and is a staple card for multi, Peters curse if I need to temporarily stop a fortress, and lampstand for burial since burial is a autoblock in type 2 and anti-falling away. Store house and wall of protection are staples too in type 2.

Offline DDiceRC

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 11:03:53 AM »
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Thanks for all the advice. Question about those artifacts: If you're using Bronze Laver & Lampstand, would a Solomon's Temple fort be advisable too?
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 11:39:12 AM »
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Yes - more decks than not use a temple to hold Lampstand, even if no other temple/tabernacle artifacts are used.

1 copy of Holy Grail and Chariot of Fire are also great cards to add to many T2 decks. I personally never play CoF in T2 but I know many others do. Holy Grail can convert an important unique evil character so your opponent cannot play down their 2nd and 3rd copy.

Don't forget site access - I usually forget when testing new decks and often lose. If you run Dragon Raid, include a purple site so you can access Pergamum.

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Offline Gabe

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 11:53:48 AM »
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These are some general guidelines I use when deck building for T2-2P. Some of these are taken from the school of Tyler Stevens, a T2 player I respect a great deal.

100 cards total, include 2 hopper ls.

Ratios vary depending on the strategy. Something between 33/33/34 if you're neutral card heavy (like a Site deck) to 40/40/20 if you have very few neutral cards.

I've never regretted being character heavy. I have regretted being enhancement heavy. I can't think of many good reasons to ever go more enhancement heavy than 1:1. Character to enhancement ratios usually look like this for good/evil. Between 15/13 to 18/16.

I usually include some kind of Temple/Tabernacle and Lampstand, if not other Temple/Tabernacle Artifacts. As others already mentioned Bronze Laver is a great choice.

Stay away from duplicates of unique cards (except Artifacts). Every card in my deck needs to be useful almost all of the time. Duplicate uniques cause hand clog. The only reason to have more than 1 copy of a unique card is if that card is very important to your offense/defense strategy. For example, in the Zebulun offense I used to win Nationals 2010 I have 4 Zebulun out of a possible 5. In a normal Genesis offense I'd probably only include 1 copy. I dislike duplicate copies of Fortresses too, unless the Fortress is a must have and you'll lose if it's discarded. I disagree that Storehouse and Wall of Protection are staples. They have their place but actually don't belong in most decks.

Include as many Dominants as you can make room for. Prior to the release of the new starter decks I'd use AotL, Grapes, GoYS, NJ, SoG, Burial, CM, DoN, FA and Mayhem. Now I'd probably try to squeeze in VF too.

Usually you'll want to have 3-4 copies of all your best enhancements.

Have a very focused game plan, but also build in alternate routes to victory for both your offense and defense. There are counters to everything and you don't want to get shut down by one counter. Using the 2010 Zebulun deck again as an example, Zebulun was the main offensive plan, but a Captain band was the backup plan. On defense, stand alone blockers was the main plan and Site lock was a backup plan.

That's a lot of information and you've gotten a lot of good advice from others too. Take to the advice that fits your play style and will allow you to have the most fun.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:48:45 PM by Gabe »
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 01:18:10 PM »
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Thank you Gabe. You have gotten great advice, my main advice to give you is build a deck that you know, you enjoy, and start playing! Some of my best decks stemmed from small ideas that I play tested. Everyone has told you to not too use many enhancements. Listen to them. Always have options for characters, both good and evil. High and low numbers, banders, stand alones, all sorts of different types. Unless you are going for a specific strategy, as Gabe said, make sure you have alternate options. Even if you have a complete streamlined offense, you should still have a way to win if the main strategy gets shut down or something unforeseen occurs. I do not use many neutral spots as I like 100 card decks. I feel like your deck is tailored to what you want, doesn't have too much unnecessary counters, an should have the appropriate ratios. 40/40/20 is a great start. 14 lost souls, 2 access cards, four artifacts. Your forty is comprised of about 15-19 characters, 13-16 enhs, and 4-5 dominants. Welcome and good luck.

Offline pilgrim14

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 08:51:14 PM »
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do doms count as neutral cards?
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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 08:53:30 PM »
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No there are evil dominants that count as evil and the good dominants are, well, good.

Offline pilgrim14

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 11:20:56 AM »
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What kind of cards are neutral?
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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 11:22:32 AM »
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Arts, LSs, sites, dual-alignment cards are essentially neutral.

Offline pilgrim14

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Re: General Type 2 advice
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
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Arts, LSs, sites, dual-alignment cards are essentially neutral.
thanks!
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