Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I'm excited to see a variety of offenses being tried out and discussed for Type II 2012! And although there will be more than 1 or 2  top-tier offenses this year, there is a pretty well defined LIST (at least in our minds) and what we expect to run into as far as Heroes and GEs.

I don't think I'm alone, however, in saying that it's not quite as easy to predict the kinds of Evil Characters and Enhancements we need to get past this year. Examples from years past included OT Soul generation to get around Creeper, a band angel to get past PP+Balaam's Disobedience, Peter/Philip the Evangelist to avoid getting nuked by Simon the Magician, etc. etc...

What Defensive "traps" do Offenses need to overcome in 2012?

Pale Green (Assyrians & Magicians)
-Survivor CBDiscarded
-ASA nukes theme fortresses/sites
-Charms... nuff said
-Horses->Forgotten History

Black (Canaanites)
-Tower can shut down non-CBN heroes while occupied
-Woman at Thebez's "play" ability...

Gold (Genesis Egyptians)
-Horses->Wonders Forgotten
-Failed Objective (kamikaze, prevent must prevent)

Crimson (Babylonians)
-Belshazzars Banquet (kamikaze, must be prevented)
-Nergalsharezar + Horses (CBN EEs)
-Nebuchadnezzar + Horses can search for Nergalsharezar (CBN)
-Seven Wicked Spirits can exchange with ECs set-aside by Nebuchadnezar's Pride
-Iron Pan turns off draw, play, ignore, immune, protect

Crimson (Heretics)
-Creeping Deceiver (counter with OT souls in their LOB)

Gray (Pharisees)
-Proud Pharisee + Balaam's Disobedience
-Just a Hireling (kamikaze, must be prevented) - Lockdown soul, "anti-shuffle"


You get the idea, what should we expect?

Also for Pale Green you have archers and horses and people who forget history.

Failed Objectives, Pharaohs that Dream, Cup bears and Bakers.

You're totally Covenant with Death is amazing. It is REALLY hard to use though (speaking from experience). I have a deck with 2 TC enhancements that really should get cut from the deck because I tempt myself to turn CwD down and that's just what my opponent wants.

What do you think we should watch out for with "Genesis Egyptians" as they exist in Type II right now? They seem kind of "fluffy" to me (soul generation, recur, kamikaze). If they're like the good old gold decks you'll need anti-play or anti-banding for Archers(X)-Horses(X)-Wonders forgotten... what else?

CwD can be difficult to use, but I have a deck that I was able to work it into quite effectively. I rarely ever deactivate CwD, just find ways around it. Genegyptians are way over-rated in my opinion in t2. The Genesis Egyptians are good on defense, but the offense isn't all that great imo.

But with Craig in MO you'll probably see a lot of crazy stuff like Pharisee defense running Thorns (with just a hireling) and Anti Draw Souls, Creeper defenses running OT souls, Assyrian defenses without DoU*.  So you might have to throw what I said out the window for MO state. J/K

I believe Tim Maly can attest to this.

DoU is scarier than ASA, in my opinion.

FWIW, more people than not were playing Assyrian-Magicians at the t2 only.

Abigail, Angel of God, Thorns LS.


Edit: Soooo, DoU isn't a to ability....

After building and testing a Babylonian defense with current cards, I've officially decided that Babylonians are ridiculous powerful: If Nebby has horses, then he'll get Nergal for a CBN kill. Nebushasban's exchange (often for a NT, Female, or */4) will stop a rescue attempt cold. Seven Wicked Spirits can exchange for a Nergal/Nebby in Set-Aside area making Nebby's Pride only harmful to the opponent (who can then be Darius' Decree'd). Nazareth Messing with your Searches? Set Fire to their territory. Lifting the Curse or Passover Hymn killing your Horses? Keep that Decree active. Or better yet, activate Covenant with Death: it wont affect your Nebby or Nergal (or Judas).

So to kind of get some t2 discussions going what defenses have no shot at winning nationals or high level tournaments this season? 

So to kind of get some t2 discussions going what defenses have no shot at winning nationals or high level tournaments this season?

In my opinion (This discussion is restricted to 2P. I am not crazy enough to put speculations on T2-MP in writing):

Egyptians: Too little power; they basically can't do much aside from stall with Wonders Forgotten and Failed Objective, and try to draw fast enough to get a high-powered offense set up to win. This might work for some games at a major tourney, but probably not enough to win.

Mono-Brown: Kings of Judah are nice because of what remains the best protect Fort in the game, and they have recursion. However, Haman's Plot is less of a factor in T2 due to tons of protection, and so all that Brown really has going for it in the enhancement department is Gibeonite Trickery. Kings of Israel need some serious splashed assistance to do anything in T2 where they are maxed at 4% of the deck able to be devoted to Samarias. Persians might be a tad more viable in T2 than T1, but that isn't saying much. However, out of all my picks on this post, this is the one that I might be most likely to be surprised if someone is able to pull off nasty CBN King Rehoboam combos.

Philistines: This pick is another hard one, and while Philistines remain a powerhouse, the emergence of OT offenses that are in some cases designed to beat them will cause them to stumble. I can see Goliath and an accompanying Armorbearer or two to fetch him being used in some splash defenses, but a straight Philly defense will not do well in more than a game or two at a big tournament.

Romans: The only advantage Romans have over Pharisees is Heavy Taxes. That, and the fact that they need Naaman's Chariot to play anything, make them very vulnerable to any offense that can dispense with weapons fairly easily (like Isaiah or Genesis).

Syrians: This is probably so obvious that it doesn't need to be stated, but Syrians are awful at everything. No initiative, no way to get around capture protection, no way to tutor their protect Fort, and the only CBN enhancement they can use is Balaam's Disobedience (unless they get Naaman and his ride setup).

Sadducees: If you want to use an NT theme with a bunch of low-numbered Generic characters, use Pharisees. If you want to use Black, use Canaanites. If you could care less about winning tournaments and want to try to pull off some of the game's most fun and sneaky cards to frustrate your opponent (like Arrest in Gethsemane or High Priest's Plot) feel free to use Sadducees.

Greeks: Maybe if Abom didn't have a 1 per territory limit, Greeks would be worthwhile in T2. As it is, they aren't. It might be fun to try out, but I wouldn't expect it to win any games.

I'd say most other themes/Civilizations have a decent chance of showing up at and possibly winning big tournies. And who knows, I might be pleasantly surprised to shake the hand of someone who piloted a successful Syrian or Sadducee defense to the top. Such is the nature of T2.