Author Topic: Which facilitators to choose?  (Read 1753 times)

Offline Reth

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Which facilitators to choose?
« on: November 04, 2016, 05:06:27 AM »
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Hi all,

coming back again with some kind of maybe naiv question. I am always struggling when it comes to choose from all the artifacts, sites, curses, covenants etc.
Above all I always pick too many artifacts since I consider all of them necessary for me, like HSR, HHI, Golden Cherubim, Confusion of mind (as artifact), Chariot of Fire and sometimes more. In order to use at least 2 I also put Solomon's Temple into deck. Regarding sites and fortresses it is more easy for me to choose.
I know one should choose things which support the own concept resp. the own cards - but things like HSR are always only targetting opponents.
So besides thinking of own cards and strategy what advice can you give for the choice of artifacts (like for example HSR and Confusion of mind).

Thanks in advance for your opinions and tips!

Bye

Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 09:58:09 AM »
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Hi all,

coming back again with some kind of maybe naiv question. I am always struggling when it comes to choose from all the artifacts, sites, curses, covenants etc.
Above all I always pick too many artifacts since I consider all of them necessary for me, like HSR, HHI, Golden Cherubim, Confusion of mind (as artifact), Chariot of Fire and sometimes more. In order to use at least 2 I also put Solomon's Temple into deck. Regarding sites and fortresses it is more easy for me to choose.
I know one should choose things which support the own concept resp. the own cards - but things like HSR are always only targetting opponents.
So besides thinking of own cards and strategy what advice can you give for the choice of artifacts (like for example HSR and Confusion of mind).

Thanks in advance for your opinions and tips!

Bye

I like to put Unsuccessful and/or covenant with noah, but i always run as many negates as a i can in my deck. that's just my play style. 
Some call me "Goofus"

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 01:28:03 AM »
+5
Artifacts fall into a few categories: silver bullets, theme enhancement, jammers and supplemental. There is also the floating Keystone category.

Silver bullets are Artifacts that cover weaknesses. For example, Brown absolutely murders lone heroes but struggles against heavy banding, so a Household Idols would be a silver bullet for brown. They can be reflexive, too: Clay struggles with speed, so Four-drachma Coin would be a silver bullet there.

Theme Enhancement are cards like I Am Holy or Denarius with hand control or Holy Grail with an offense that uses converted Evil Characters. It doesn't have to be that specific, though; fast decks are well-served by You Will Remain, for example.

Jammers are cards that negatively impact a broad spectrum of opponent's cards. Cards such as HSR, CoM, RBD, Golden Cherubim and HHI fall into this category. The ones that cut both ways should probably be included only if your deck is not hurt too badly by them (lots of CBN/P characters or little reliance on character SA's and TC enhancements suggests the use of CoM, while little reliance on banding suggests HHI). This category is strongly related to keystone.

Supplemental are artifacts that typically free up slots on offense or defense by filling the role from the artifact pile. This includes cards like Covenant with Noah freeing up a negate slot on offense, Captured Ark freeing up a dom slot from DoN, Holy Grail freeing up pressure slots, and Samaritan Water Jar freeing up soulgen opportunity cost.

The Keystone artifact is the one artifact in your deck that you want to have up most of the time. Your art slot is going to waste if you don't have anything activated. The default card for this slot is HSR, but can change depending on deck makeup.

So basically, you have to bear in mind that you can only have one Artifact active at any given time (unless you're playing enough Teal to justify Solomon's Temple or enough N.T. Humans and recursion to justify Herod's Temple), and that all artifacts are dead cards when they're not active. If you have built a defense that requires two silver bullets, a theme enhancer and a jammer to function, you have to fix the defense. What I'll typically have is one jammer (usually HSR), two or three of supplemental and theme enhancements, and one silver bullet. If the same artifact can cover multiple duties (such as HHI serving as a jammer, a theme enhancer and a silver bullet all at the same time), so much the better. I have never played a successful deck that used more than 5 artifacts, and the sweet spot for optimization seems to be 3 or 4 (+1 if there is an artifact that can activate off-slot such as Wool Fleece or Magic Charms). The heart and soul of every deck is LS choice, Dom choice, characters and enhancements, and every other class of card should be seasoning. The total sum of cards that are not characters, enhancements, dominants and souls should be around seven, never more than ten, and rarely fewer than four. Mayhem delenda est.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline ag4hosea

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 01:46:40 AM »
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Artifacts fall into a few categories: silver bullets, theme enhancement, jammers and supplemental. There is also the floating Keystone category.

Silver bullets are Artifacts that cover weaknesses. For example, Brown absolutely murders lone heroes but struggles against heavy banding, so a Household Idols would be a silver bullet for brown. They can be reflexive, too: Clay struggles with speed, so Four-drachma Coin would be a silver bullet there.

Theme Enhancement are cards like I Am Holy or Denarius with hand control or Holy Grail with an offense that uses converted Evil Characters. It doesn't have to be that specific, though; fast decks are well-served by You Will Remain, for example.

Jammers are cards that negatively impact a broad spectrum of opponent's cards. Cards such as HSR, CoM, RBD, Golden Cherubim and HHI fall into this category. The ones that cut both ways should probably be included only if your deck is not hurt too badly by them (lots of CBN/P characters or little reliance on character SA's and TC enhancements suggests the use of CoM, while little reliance on banding suggests HHI). This category is strongly related to keystone.

Supplemental are artifacts that typically free up slots on offense or defense by filling the role from the artifact pile. This includes cards like Covenant with Noah freeing up a negate slot on offense, Captured Ark freeing up a dom slot from DoN, Holy Grail freeing up pressure slots, and Samaritan Water Jar freeing up soulgen opportunity cost.

The Keystone artifact is the one artifact in your deck that you want to have up most of the time. Your art slot is going to waste if you don't have anything activated. The default card for this slot is HSR, but can change depending on deck makeup.

So basically, you have to bear in mind that you can only have one Artifact active at any given time (unless you're playing enough Teal to justify Solomon's Temple or enough N.T. Humans and recursion to justify Herod's Temple), and that all artifacts are dead cards when they're not active. If you have built a defense that requires two silver bullets, a theme enhancer and a jammer to function, you have to fix the defense. What I'll typically have is one jammer (usually HSR), two or three of supplemental and theme enhancements, and one silver bullet. If the same artifact can cover multiple duties (such as HHI serving as a jammer, a theme enhancer and a silver bullet all at the same time), so much the better. I have never played a successful deck that used more than 5 artifacts, and the sweet spot for optimization seems to be 3 or 4 (+1 if there is an artifact that can activate off-slot such as Wool Fleece or Magic Charms). The heart and soul of every deck is LS choice, Dom choice, characters and enhancements, and every other class of card should be seasoning. The total sum of cards that are not characters, enhancements, dominants and souls should be around seven, never more than ten, and rarely fewer than four. Mayhem delenda est.

Thanks for this Pol, this is really useful! Thanks for your insight into artifacts and the different categories, it'll definitely help me when I'm deciding which ones to put in my decks (which is something I struggle with a lot)! You're a legend  :thumbup:
Your Aussie brother in Christ, Andy :)

Offline jesse

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2016, 09:36:45 AM »
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Artifacts fall into a few categories: silver bullets, theme enhancement, jammers and supplemental. There is also the floating Keystone category.

Silver bullets are Artifacts that cover weaknesses. For example, Brown absolutely murders lone heroes but struggles against heavy banding, so a Household Idols would be a silver bullet for brown. They can be reflexive, too: Clay struggles with speed, so Four-drachma Coin would be a silver bullet there.

Theme Enhancement are cards like I Am Holy or Denarius with hand control or Holy Grail with an offense that uses converted Evil Characters. It doesn't have to be that specific, though; fast decks are well-served by You Will Remain, for example.

Jammers are cards that negatively impact a broad spectrum of opponent's cards. Cards such as HSR, CoM, RBD, Golden Cherubim and HHI fall into this category. The ones that cut both ways should probably be included only if your deck is not hurt too badly by them (lots of CBN/P characters or little reliance on character SA's and TC enhancements suggests the use of CoM, while little reliance on banding suggests HHI). This category is strongly related to keystone.

Supplemental are artifacts that typically free up slots on offense or defense by filling the role from the artifact pile. This includes cards like Covenant with Noah freeing up a negate slot on offense, Captured Ark freeing up a dom slot from DoN, Holy Grail freeing up pressure slots, and Samaritan Water Jar freeing up soulgen opportunity cost.

The Keystone artifact is the one artifact in your deck that you want to have up most of the time. Your art slot is going to waste if you don't have anything activated. The default card for this slot is HSR, but can change depending on deck makeup.

So basically, you have to bear in mind that you can only have one Artifact active at any given time (unless you're playing enough Teal to justify Solomon's Temple or enough N.T. Humans and recursion to justify Herod's Temple), and that all artifacts are dead cards when they're not active. If you have built a defense that requires two silver bullets, a theme enhancer and a jammer to function, you have to fix the defense. What I'll typically have is one jammer (usually HSR), two or three of supplemental and theme enhancements, and one silver bullet. If the same artifact can cover multiple duties (such as HHI serving as a jammer, a theme enhancer and a silver bullet all at the same time), so much the better. I have never played a successful deck that used more than 5 artifacts, and the sweet spot for optimization seems to be 3 or 4 (+1 if there is an artifact that can activate off-slot such as Wool Fleece or Magic Charms). The heart and soul of every deck is LS choice, Dom choice, characters and enhancements, and every other class of card should be seasoning. The total sum of cards that are not characters, enhancements, dominants and souls should be around seven, never more than ten, and rarely fewer than four. Mayhem delenda est.

This is super-helpful!! Would your advice on fortresses be basically the same because they are a similar card-type?
Love is the flame of God, Who is love and an all-consuming fire!- Song. 8:6-7, 1 Jn. 4:8, Deut. 4:24

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2016, 11:40:46 AM »
+1
Jammers are cards that negatively impact a broad spectrum of opponent's cards. Cards such as HSR, CoM, RBD, Golden Cherubim and HHI fall into this category. The ones that cut both ways should probably be included only if your deck is not hurt too badly by them (lots of CBN/P characters or little reliance on character SA's and TC enhancements suggests the use of CoM, while little reliance on banding suggests HHI). This category is strongly related to keystone.

Great insights on artifacts...one minor correction I noticed. I believe you meant to refer to Covenant with Death (CwD) instead of Confusion of Mind (CoM) in the section above.

Quote
Your art slot is going to waste if you don't have anything activated.

This is so true and something I think is really overlooked by a lot of players.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 08:16:15 PM »
+3
Fortresses are a little different in that they are nearly universally theme-dependent and have unlimited slots, but tend to be less powerful. Most decks will not even be considering more than 2 or 3 fortresses, and the most I've ever seen in a successful deck was 4. The problem with all cards that are not characters is they rarely do much on their own and Enhancements are generally way better than other non-character cards for helping win souls and deny them to your opponent. I break it down this way when looking at deck slots:

-Lost Souls: Mandatory
-Dominants: Basically mandatory
Now you're up to 14
-Characters: No downside. Do not contribute to hand clog, and are the engine on which all offenses and defenses run. I have found about 20 characters to be ideal, although some themes have enough power and speed per character to do with less.
Now you're up to 34
-Enhancements: The most essential element of winning a battle assuming both players have characters, but contributes to hand clog if not used in a timely fashion. I generally want at least 3 battle-winners, 3 responses, 1 destruction and 1 utility enhancement on both offense and defense. Some cards can serve multiple purposes at once (Zeal and Two Bears are both battle winners and responses while Provoked is utility plus either destruction or battle-winner depending on the situation), so my actual count on these is 10-12 rather than 16. Weapons and Territory-class Enhancements that serve in these roles are extra-desirable because they have less hand-clog issues.
Now you're up to 44-46
-Everything else.
A. Artifacts: Tend to have the strongest abilities in this category and do not contribute to hand clog, but are easily targeted and limited to one (sometimes two) at a time. You will always want at least 2.
B. Fortresses: Tend to have middling abilities, but are not limited in number used while also not contributing to hand clog. Middle-difficulty to target as well. Most decks will want one, some two, and a select few three or four.
C. Sites: Weakest abilities, but hardest to target. Also do not contribute to hand clog and are not limited in number, but carry the wild-card bonus of the soul access mini-game. Most decks will use zero or 3 Sites (it is a waste to use one or two sites because you miss the opportunity of a soft lockout from access and there is never a better way to use card slots once you've already used one for a Site than to use another two for a totally passive denial-of-win condition. The one exception is if you use Hormah for liner abuse and use the other 2 slots to make sure you survive to endgame with Liner intact).

My ideal deck size is in the range of 51-53, leaving you about 7 more card slots at this point. You'll want at least one to be a keystone artifact and will need 2-4 to plug holes in or supplement your offense and defense, leaving you with 2-4 discretionary cards before you start to play with the math based on your particular deck. These will usually be seasoned to flavor of playstyle and can also be redistributed into previous categories if your offense or defense needs a couple extra characters or enhancements to work at maximum efficiency. Mayhem delenda est.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline jesse

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 11:10:01 PM »
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Thanks so much for this- so helpful once again!
Love is the flame of God, Who is love and an all-consuming fire!- Song. 8:6-7, 1 Jn. 4:8, Deut. 4:24

Offline Reth

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Re: Which facilitators to choose?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 02:45:50 PM »
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Thanks a lot Minister! This is really helpful and very informative. Thanks for these clarifications.

 


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