Author Topic: Watchful Servant Turtle (Read 10831 times)

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:11:35 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on February 14, 2012, 09:02:05 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 14, 2012, 08:59:03 PM
Decks are only fast if the guy running it wants them too. Once they figure out you're playing WS, they'll stop drawing.
Except you won't find that out until it's too late, generally speaking. Also, I frequently keep speeding through because a constant bombardment will be what wins, not letting a turtle deck draw.

ands thats why the pure ws offense is bad but adding a touch of luke/john forced drawing does wonders and no not abom either but thats all im gonna say lol

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #51 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:12:44 PM »

it's not bad, it just means you can't use it in a tourny or just win every game by timeout

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:18:48 PM »

I think its a misconception that time limits are the reason why turtle can't win nats. If the turtle player is timing out more than once in a ten round tournament they are doing something wrong.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #53 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:19:34 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on February 14, 2012, 09:18:48 PM

I think its a misconception that time limits are the reason why turtle can't win nats. If the turtle player is timing out more than once in a ten round tournament they are doing something wrong.

Bad draws are what kill turtles, just like the rest of us.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:22:38 PM »

I agree, not time limits.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #55 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:56:35 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on February 14, 2012, 09:18:48 PM

I think its a misconception that time limits are the reason why turtle can't win nats. If the turtle player is timing out more than once in a ten round tournament they are doing something wrong.

I disagree, and I think the reason is because you're looking at turtle decks the wrong way. A 154 card deck with maybe 20 cards (if that) on offense is strong enough to beat speed decks. A combination of stalls before you get a more comprehensive defense (such as GoS) set up is generally enough to win. My old 154 card deck went something like 10-1, and some of those games were against solid speed decks piloted by strong players. A giant turtle is the strongest type of turtle, and they will never be viable due to time limits.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:09:28 PM »

Not if you build it properly, if its fast it should be fine more often then not (as in not timing out). Good Turtle loses when it gets out run, not because it times out.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #57 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:10:04 PM »

Build what properly, exactly?

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:12:08 PM »

Giant Turtle.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #59 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:18:07 PM »

I agree with Hobbit, but it really comes down to improper terminology.

The most popular view of turtle is a really small offense that waits until it's safe to start making rescues.
However, this isn't necessarily what a turtle is.

A turtle is also viewed as a defensive-heavy deck.
Which doesn't quite fit the term of turtle. Defensive heavy is it's own term, similar to anti-meta.

A turtle is also viewed as a deck that draws slow.
This isn't necessarily true either.

You couldn't build a 70 card speed deck, even if it was packed with speed cards. The whole point is trying to deck as fast as you can. Turtles are just the opposite, they try to deck slowly, and punish ~~Rabbit~~ speed decks. So you can be a fast turtle. The turtle wins the race with slow and steady, but the fastest turtle will win, not just any turtle. However, this means you probably won't deck, but will still need the speed to get the cards you need.

At least, that's my new view on what turtles are.

everytribe · « **Reply #60 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:36:44 PM »

You won't believe that a Heroless deck can win intil you run into a good one played by a skilled player and get beat and then you wonder how can I beat that deck.

You won't believe a turtle deck can be fast until you play your 63 card deck againt a 154 card deck and lose after your opponent decked before you did.

Both of those senarios happened to me in the last 2 weeks.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #61 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:41:49 PM »

Quote from: everytribe on February 14, 2012, 11:36:44 PM

You won't believe that a Heroless deck can win intil you run into a good one played by a skilled player and get beat and then you wonder how can I beat that deck.

That happened to me once, and I'm 3 for 3 since. The biggest asset to turtles is surprise. Most people really don't know how to play against them.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #62 on:** February 15, 2012, 12:01:12 AM »

I've never lost to anything above 63 cards in regulation time, and I've beaten turtles more often than not when time wasn't a factor. When talking about timeouts, bear in mind that the "one hour" time limits isn't actually an hour of game time. That's more like 45 minutes. Many games involving two conventional decks can near that 45 minute mark, so in order to assert speed decks don't time out often, you have to show how they're just as fast at 70+ cards as is a conventional deck at 56. I just don't see it.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #63 on:** February 15, 2012, 12:04:01 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on February 15, 2012, 12:01:12 AM

I've never lost to anything above 63 cards in regulation time, and I've beaten turtles more often than not when time wasn't a factor. When talking about timeouts, bear in mind that the "one hour" time limits isn't actually an hour of game time. That's more like 45 minutes. Many games involving two conventional decks can near that 45 minute mark, so in order to assert speed decks don't time out often, you have to show how they're just as fast at 70+ cards as is a conventional deck at 56. I just don't see it.

Because the game doesn't end when you deck, it ends when you get 5 lost souls. All you need to do that is a way around KoT, considering the meta-defense. You have just as many chances to rescue lost souls as your opponent, and just because you draw slower doesn't mean that you can't rescue just as fast (or faster, considering how many times you should be blocking them)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #64 on:** February 15, 2012, 12:56:03 AM »

They get their offense turn 1. How long do you wait until you draw your way around KoT?

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #65 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:39:17 AM »

Quote

You couldn't build a 70 card speed deck,

Wasn't the original SpeedFreak 63-70 cards?

Quote

The turtle wins the race with slow and steady, but the fastest turtle will win, not just any turtle. However, this means you probably won't deck, but will still need the speed to get the cards you need.

I think it's skill, experience (both player and with the deck), and deck building. I never like drawing too much in my defensive heavy decks, the ratios are so precise I always have something to block with. I played in Boston, a 56 card Abomb deck, using my 63 or 70 card Abomb deck and I easily won.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #66 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:58:54 PM »

I updated this deck in light of the new rules, I took out SoG and NJ for storehouse and overwhelmed by phillies because i can't use them defensively anymore and if WS can rescue 3 LSs he can rescue 5. The only problem is now if my opponent is using the */4 or greater and the female only and burial I don't have access to 5 LSs. Would it be worth it to put in the wanderer LS just for this reason, or are enouhg people not using the *4 or greater and burial so that I won't have to worry about it and I can put in the colorguard LS instead?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #67 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »

*/4 is going to be in most decks now. Just put I Am Salvation in there.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #68 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:03:44 PM »

I plan on having up Josiah's cov all the time once WS is out so I cant really

lp670sv · « **Reply #69 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:04:00 PM »

Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on March 20, 2012, 12:58:54 PM

I took out SoG and NJ

Wings of Music · « **Reply #70 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:05:06 PM »

I think that you might be well off taking out storehouse (or overwhelmed by phillies) and leave in SoG, I can see where (especially in a turtle deck) why you wouldn't want NJ, I wouldn't want it in this deck either, but SoG is still a free soul without NJ, and since turtles have problems with times outs, SoGing for a souls rather than waiting for WS could help you get more wins.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #71 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:12:20 PM »

Having SoG would let me win a turn faster, but at the cost of a card slot in my hand the entire game. This deck isn't concerned with winning fast, one turn won't make a difference at the end of the game. I'm not planning on taking this deck to tourny, so I'm not worried about time-outs

Wings of Music · « **Reply #72 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:16:29 PM »

Ok, but still, what if the opponent has two lost souls out? It's a easy drop in that case. Additionally I don't think that one extra card is going to completely clog your hand. I don't think any deck should go without SoG it's simply too powerful to not to.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #73 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:23:25 PM »

It is powerful, but not necessary. At the end of the game I can walk through and get 5 LSs easy, so why do I need SoG again? That's like including AoCP in every deck that had 1 hero that can use purple because its a powerful card. I'd rather have storehouse in this deck do I dont have to discard all my EEs at the end of my turn while I'm making space in my hand for WS and his support cards until I get lampy and Josiah's cov up

stefferweffer · « **Reply #74 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:42:51 PM »

In my WS turtle deck, which is quite similar to yours, only 56 cards, I use: Book of the Covenant, I am Healing, and Cov with(of?) Josiah in the Tabernacle, and Lampstand in the Artifact slot. With Nazareth Site you are protected then from DON and Captured Ark, and Christian Martyr does not bother you because of I am Healing. Glory of the Lord might not be a bad dominant add in case there was some crazy way they coulg get to Tabernacle that I'm not aware of. Covenant with Josiah makes it so they can't put DS or Image of Jealousy on WS.

Be careful about putting too much in Storehouse. One well-placed IOJ can send all those EEs to the discard pile.

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Author Topic: Watchful Servant Turtle (Read 10831 times)

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13

Chronic Apathy

TheHobbit13

Chronic Apathy

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk