Author Topic: FBN by banding  (Read 7693 times)

Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2010, 12:48:18 AM »
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how about adding stronghold in the desert for shennanigins...
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2010, 02:06:15 PM »
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2010, 02:14:28 PM »
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actually instead of dragonraid you will need new jerusalem and promised land bcuz a site lockout with pergamum would wipe out your deck. Also the warriors ones are sometimes better bcuz i block you with zimri your offense goes byebye. BUT if you wanna go mass banding warrior class go for - Asahel to Heldai to Mahari to Helez to your choice of Beneniah or Ira...well i would forgo the strong angel (warrior class) and go to warrriors (since no one bands to him anyway) and maybe a simeon, jacob, CoTH (warriors)

you won't need both New Jerusalem and Promised land bcuz he already has heroes af pretty much every brigade

Offline Josh

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2010, 02:32:18 PM »
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.
Moses interrupts and prevents when he enters battle.  His ability is not "interrupting" every card that enters battle in the future - he interrupts every ability already in the battle, and then prevents all abilities going forward (including the interrupted ones).  CBP's main purpose is to work against FBTN - it can't be stopped by Moses' ongoing prevent.  I don't think it's possible to have an interrupt ability that interrupts a card not yet played...
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2010, 02:43:54 PM »
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.
Moses interrupts and prevents when he enters battle.  His ability is not "interrupting" every card that enters battle in the future - he interrupts every ability already in the battle, and then prevents all abilities going forward (including the interrupted ones).  CBP's main purpose is to work against FBTN - it can't be stopped by Moses' ongoing prevent.  I don't think it's possible to have an interrupt ability that interrupts a card not yet played...
they had this discussion a long time ago (which made STAMP quit again) and it was ruled that he interrupts and prevents.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2010, 02:56:07 PM »
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.

Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.

Offline Josh

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2010, 03:01:00 PM »
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.

Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
Agree!  This is what I was trying to say. 
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2010, 03:05:36 PM »
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.

Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.

even if you played words of encouragement+transfiguration to bring him in?
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2010, 03:19:19 PM »
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2010, 04:40:41 PM »
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.

Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
even if you played words of encouragement+transfiguration to bring him in?
If I understand your question right, then yes.

For example, if my EC plays a CBP discard EE on your white hero, and you play Words+Tranfig to bring in Moses, then Moses would cancel my CBP discard EE (because it was played BEFORE Moses entered battle).  But if I then played another CBP discard EE, then that discard would happen (because it was played AFTER Moses entered battle).

Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2010, 05:05:52 PM »
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Offline Josh

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2010, 05:14:53 PM »
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Isn't the ongoing ability actually a "prevent"?  You can't interrupt an ability that hasn't happened yet.  Interrupt happens once - when the negate-all character enters battle.  Moses enters battle, all abilities are interrupted (only affects ones already in battle), all abilities are prevented (including those interrupted).  CBP cards (like The Trap of the Devil grants) were designed to deal with Captain bands and the like, and it has been ruled that nothing, not even a negate all, can stop a CBP ability ahead of time.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2010, 05:22:41 PM »
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Isn't the ongoing ability actually a "prevent"?  You can't interrupt an ability that hasn't happened yet.  Interrupt happens once - when the negate-all character enters battle.  Moses enters battle, all abilities are interrupted (only affects ones already in battle), all abilities are prevented (including those interrupted).  CBP cards (like The Trap of the Devil grants) were designed to deal with Captain bands and the like, and it has been ruled that nothing, not even a negate all, can stop a CBP ability ahead of time.
"The special ability of a “play by the numbers” card explicitly says that it interrupts and prevents ALL special abilities.  " from the REG.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2010, 05:25:09 PM »
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Yes, it is ongoing, but it can't stop a CBP that is played AFTER Moses enters battle. :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 08:16:05 PM by Prof Underwood »

Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2010, 05:26:49 PM »
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Yes, it is ongoing, but it can't stop a CBP :)
in that case, negate all is NOT ongoing. it is merely a prevent. you're dividing the interrupt and the prevent, when negate does both.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2010, 05:32:16 PM »
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after much searching, I found this thread which agrees with me.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2010, 08:15:28 PM »
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after much searching, I found this thread which agrees with me.
I think we must be misunderstanding each other, because that thread also agrees with me :)

if your "cannot be prevented" card is played after TSA's negate all is in effect your card will work.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2010, 08:23:30 PM »
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'Interrupt' is not an ongoing ability.  Only the 'Prevent' part of TSA's SA is ongoing.

There aren't two separate abilities.  It's one ability.  Negate all.

Check the REG, negate all cards are listed under "Ongoing abilities".

The Strong Angel
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 10 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: All special abilities on non-warrior class characters and non-weapon class enhancements are negated.

seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2010, 10:35:38 PM »
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There aren't two separate abilities.  It's one ability.  Negate all.
seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.
Yes, Gabe is saying that the entire "negate" ability is ongoing.  However, that still doesn't stop CBP cards that are played after TSA or Moses enters battle (which Gabe says in the last post of the thread).

Warrior_Monk

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2010, 11:02:16 PM »
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There aren't two separate abilities.  It's one ability.  Negate all.
seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.
Yes, Gabe is saying that the entire "negate" ability is ongoing.  However, that still doesn't stop CBP cards that are played after TSA or Moses enters battle (which Gabe says in the last post of the thread).
got it.

to be honest, I've always played CBP (after the fact)>Negate, but when I read this thread, I thought of that thread and was confused.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: FBN by banding
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2010, 09:28:26 AM »
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got it.
Glad to hear it.  You're not alone.  A lot of people have been confused on the whole CBP thing lately :)

 


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