Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Tarthan on August 21, 2012, 10:00:56 PM

Title: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Tarthan on August 21, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
Ok, just so you know, ive been playing in the Richmond VA area for about 3 years.  I've never been to an official tournament, but we hope to get one going this fall/winter.  I play a general Red/ Babylonians deck type and would like:

1. help on what to do about my general lack of focus on the Red. 

2. The Babylonians got better, but any advice on them would be appreciated.  I just bought several of the 2011 set cards, but its not in yet. 

Things I know already: :P

1. I need better Lost souls.  other than that , I know nothing. :-\


DECK:

Cards in deck: 56
Lost Souls: 7
   Lost Soul
   Lost Soul
   Lost Soul
   Lost Soul
   Lost Soul (Anti Angel)
   Lost Soul (female only)
   Lost Soul (withdraw)

Lamb Dominants: 4
   Angel of the Lord
   Harvest Time
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 4
   Burial
   Christian Martyr
   Destruction of Nehushtan
   Falling Away

Fortresses: 1
   Storehouse

Artifacts: 5
   Asherah Pole
   Burial Shroud
   Holy Grail
   Priestly Crown
   Temple Veil

White Covenant Cards: 1
   Go Into Captivity (Crimson)

Red Heroes: 7
   Chloe
   Epaphras
   Lot
   Naharai
   Recruiting Officer
   Tabitha
   The Centurion at calvary

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 1
   Capturing Canaan (red/gold)

Red Hero Enhancements: 8
   A Soldier's Prayer
   Authority of Peter
   Baggage
   Book of Gad the Seer
   Caleb's Sword
   Counsel of Abigail
   Freedom!
   Power of the Cross

Crimson Evil Characters: 7
   Ashpenaz
   Babylonian Forces
   King Shallum
   Nebushasban
   Queen Maachah
   Sapphira
   Serpent, The

Crimson Evil Enhancements: 10
   Apprehended
   Carried into Exile
   Christian Suing Another
   Coliseum Lions
   Deceit of Sapphira
   Great Image
   Head of Gold
   Imitating Evil
   Swift Horses
   Treachery of Jezebel
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on August 21, 2012, 10:13:32 PM
I'm thinking about doing a Red/Babylonian deck m'self.

For your capture cards (I'll do this myself), I'd recommend throwing in a "Raider's Camp." It hinders your opponent from rescuing souls.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Captain Falcon on August 22, 2012, 01:05:09 AM
Well first off, welcome to the boards!  Concerning dominants, you can only have as many as there are souls in your deck (excluding the hopper if you end up putting it in).  Also, concerning character to enhancement ratio, I would recommend an 8:9 on evil, or maybe even 9:8.  I would also put in more offense than defense, as that's absolutely necessary to victory. 
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 22, 2012, 06:11:50 PM
As UNF0RG1V4BL3 said, Welcome to the Boards! First things first, you need to drop a Dominant from your Deck (I'd suggest Burial)

Next up, the main theme for Red is the OT Warriors (besides the Centurions) so I'd suggest running to that theme, and definately getting Tin 25 for some of the best new Red Warriors and some of the older ones like Heldai and cards like David's Triumph and Warrior's Spear (I can't remember most of their battle-winners since I don't play them... But Tin 25 will come with Bravery of David) Also get Council of Abigail and possibly Abigail as well. You will need a David for a lot of Battle-winners to work as well as Uriah.

For the Babylonians,
You need to get Nebuchadnezzar (TxP) he is one of the bases of the Babylonians because he can pull any OT Crimson card and it can't be negated. But be sure you don't have a Daniel Hero in your Deck, it will hurt you. Next up will be putting King Belshazzar in your Deck since he can pull Belshazzar's Banquet from your Discard Pile (which you should also use) and you should definately have Babylonian Solider's to Remove the Characters you capture.
I would highly suggest using both Drawn Sword and Forrest Fire (both from FF2). Also get Negershalezzar (the one that makes OT Evil Enhancements cannot be negated) and get Arioch. Astrologers and Chaldeans are very useful as well as Invoking Terror. Dream can be very useful as well. I would also suggest Uzzah as well.

For Lost Souls, NT Only is very useful as is First Round Protect. The Cannot be Prevented Lost Soul is very useful and I would suggest keeping the Female Only as well. You may find Multi-Book useful (basically if Opponent bands Characters from 2 books together, Protect that one from Rescue) */4 or higher is great since Son of God/ New Jerusalem can't rescue it (same with the NT Only) and lastly Shut Door. This means that if an Opponent plays a Good Dominant (like Angel of the Lord or Grapes of Wrath) that Lost Soul jumps to the bottom of the Owner's Deck.

Also I suggest using Unknown Nation so you can pull another Evil Character from your Deck if an Opponent has a Hero in battle. This helps if an Opponent played a card like Authority of Christ (the Promo which can't be negated) or Angel of the Lord so you can get another Evil Character into battle.

With these suggestions I'd suggest taking out Priestly Crown and Temple Veil because Sites are not commonly used anymore (except Samaria) and the ones that are, (Samaria) you can easily get Site Access with your Characters anyway. (All the new Centurions have Site Access and so do at least 2 of the OT Warriors do as well and Caleb can use an Opponent's Site for Access too.

These are my suggestions to help your Deck. =) I hope it will help. Also be very careful for Household Idols and I may suggest getting Simon the Zealot for that + he protects your Hand and Deck from Opponents while he's in play.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Captain Falcon on August 22, 2012, 09:52:26 PM
I would take out burial as megamanlan said, but would exchange Harvest time for grapes of wrath, as it isn't a dead draw if drawn near the end of the game, as Harvest time is.

For a red offense, you'll want tin 25, as it has many essential cards such as ishmaiah and foreign sword.  You'll also wants some cards from the kings set such as abishai, mustering for war, red David and a Adino. 

Megamanlan was also accurate in recommending the cards he did for the defense. 

For souls, the exchanger lost soul is one of the best there is.  It is good for gaining access, as red brigade has a problem with the Female only lost soul. 

I wouldn't recommend unknown nation, however.  If you draw it at the end of the game, it's pointless, where another evil character will be useful wherever you draw it. 

I would keep a site access site just in case, as you might not draw the centurions when you need them, and your opponent might not use an access site for you to steal.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2012, 11:27:18 PM
These guys have the advice pretty much down, but I just want to add another voice in favor of Unknown Nation. Getting Nebuchadnezzar out ASAP is where most of Crimson's strength comes from, and a battle-extender is always nice (especially if you can use it after drawing out AotL). To that end, I would also suggest The Amalekite's Slave.

When you're ready to get more advanced, you can easily morph the defense into Crimson/Pale and the offense into FbtNB (creating a tournament-caliber deck), so you've started down the right path.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 23, 2012, 04:27:40 AM
If you are worried about Site Access, use Sites like New Jerusalem (Wo) or Promised Land, but also remember that if you use older Heroes (Like Dohdai) they can get rid of Sites as well for you. But I may suggest using at least 1 Access site if you really need it, but as I mentioned before, this season it will most likely end up a waste in the deck unless you see a lot of Samaria Decks (which is unlikely)
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: cardsofmanykinds on August 23, 2012, 10:55:26 AM
if you dont want to spend lots of money,go on threelionsgaming.com and get cards like abishi, heldai, adino, mustering for war,sound the   alarm,united army, and some other banding cards as far as babs go its hard to go cheap but all this is just if you want to go cheap,its not the best deck ever
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 23, 2012, 01:30:20 PM
Or if you have cards that other people want, Check out the Redemption Market too. You can get some deals there. =)
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Tarthan on August 23, 2012, 05:07:25 PM
Ok, WOW.  Thanks guys, a lot.  I didn't want to have to go to the OT for red but now i know i pretty much have too. 
A few Questions though:

  Why drop Burial? 

  Is David the only viable strategy for red?

  How do you play battle winners with a high number Red deck?  This one may seem like a duh duh, but I can't seem to get it. 

 Minister Polarius stated that "When you're ready to get more advanced, you can easily morph the defense into Crimson/Pale and the offense into FbtNB (creating a tournament-caliber deck), so you've started down the right path."  What is FbtNB and is Crimson/Pale Green inherently better than just Crimson?

  The more vocal of you said nothing about Raider's Camp, is that useful?

  Thanks very much, now i know that i have to really put some more thought into the Red.  FYI I bought most of the 2011 Babylonian cards and Nebuchadnezzar.  Red however I only bought Foreign Sword and the New Counsel of Abigail
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Red Wing on August 23, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
Quote
  Why drop Burial? 
It is not legal to include more dominants in a deck than lost souls.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 23, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
FbtNB is Fight by the Numbers Banding. It uses the Warrior-Class "FbtN" characters (Ira, Benaiah, The Strong Angel and Captain of the Host) along with a long banding chain to attack with, and it won Nationals this year.

Pure crimson isn't a top-caliber defense, but Crimson/Pale Green is a way to play Magicians that is very viable with its many blocks and reasonable speed.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Tarthan on August 23, 2012, 09:44:26 PM
Thanks, I know i need to drop one, harvest time was that one. 

How do you counter low numbers battle-winners with a FBtN/B (is that right?)?
Title: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: jbeers285 on August 23, 2012, 10:05:28 PM
Well obviously of the battle winners are chump blocks (uzzah, failed objective, bels banquet, death of unrighteousness,  suicidal swine stampede) or CBN it's tough to stop them but if they are just battle winners you can use interrupt cards cards and negate cards to stop there evil enhancements.  I'm not super familiar with red offense but look for cards with said interrupt and negate abilities on them to stop defensive battle winners

One such card is bravery of David which you can use a soldiers prayer to search deck or discard pile for and exchange it.

That being said many players only use chump blocks and CBN battle winners on defense so your better off using your own battle winners on offense rather then negating there battle winners.

Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on August 23, 2012, 10:05:55 PM

  The more vocal of you said nothing about Raider's Camp, is that useful?

 
I think it is because whenever an evil character captures a hero, you place it in the Raider's Camp. Each time your opponent wins a battle, instead of getting a soul, it gets the captured hero, and it doesn't count as a redeemed soul. I think it'd help Babylonians because the have a few capture cards.
Title: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: jbeers285 on August 23, 2012, 10:13:19 PM
Personally I'm not a huge fan of raiders camp because lots of capture abilities are not CBN and there is a ton of protection against capture in the game. Also you have to get raiders camp in play for it to be useful. Unless you can search for it and be sure u can get it out, it may not be drawn early enough to be useful.

Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Captain Kirk on August 24, 2012, 02:00:29 AM
The reason that Minister Polarius posted about Crimson/Pale Green together is that Magicians are really strong based on current cards such as Magic Charms, Invoking Terror, King Manasseh, and Egpytian Magicians. Two magicians are both crimson and pale green (Chaldeans and Astrologers) which provides great synergy between Babylonians and Magicians.

The main reason Crimson is often not considered the strongest defense is because it has a lack of CBN (cannot be negated) battle winners. Everything funnels around putting Swift Horses on Nergal to play first as his enhancements are all CBN, using Nebuchadnezzar to pull out what you need quickly, and using Belshazzar's Banquet to suicide block low and then recur it with King Belshazzar.

For what it's worth, I think Crimson is a really solid defense to play with and a lot of fun.

How do you counter low numbers battle-winners with a FBtN/B (is that right?)?

The acronym is seen is many ways, such as FBNB, FBtNB, etc. you are fine. :)

The answer to your question is that you don't. If you are running a pure FBtNB deck you hope to hit your opponent quick with a lot of numbers while negating all their abilities and hope they don't draw their CBN or CBP (can't be prevented) cards early. Moreover, many top decks include little defense in them a they focus on speed and offensive firepower. So FBtNB attempts to take advantage of that and shut down the little your opponent may have.

Quote from: Tarthan
  How do you play battle winners with a high number Red deck?  This one may seem like a duh duh, but I can't seem to get it

Great question. You hope your opponent blocks high or plays something you can negate. Several of red's battle winners have negates or interrupts in their ability (Bravery of David, Counsel of Abigail) so you can play them to counter what your opponent attempts to defeat you with. I personally prefer to use a balance if high and low numbered characters to allow for flexibility in my rescues based on what my opponent is using.

Welcome to the boards!

Kirk
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Tarthan on August 24, 2012, 09:27:02 AM
Thanks for all your help guys I really appreciate it.  I'm going to post another incarnation of this deck in maybe a week, with better Babylonians and i'll think about what needs to happen for my Red. 

Gracias Amigos
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 24, 2012, 09:05:26 PM
Well, the thing about Red is that it doesn't have really anything else useful except Warriors and the new Warriors themes base around David so I'd suggest getting a David to use in the Deck.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Captain Falcon on August 24, 2012, 11:38:20 PM
As megamanlan said, I would recommend a David to go in the offense - various other cards cannot be negated if he is in play and is a good character for initiative.  As Minister Polarius brought up, FBTNB wouldn't be a bad thing to consider for the deck.  Not completely augmenting the deck to a by the numbers deck, but throwing in some of the characters such as Ira and Benaiah.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 25, 2012, 09:48:55 PM
And also because Red David is a bit more useful because Joab and Abishai can band to him.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Red on August 28, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
Hmmmm, My first glance over the deck shows me that you have way too few heros. No deck balanced or not needs to be running less than 9 heroes. Also never play equal Enhancement/Character ratios. Apply these concepts to everyone else's advice and you will have a decent deck.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 29, 2012, 07:03:43 PM
For the most part I agree, use at very minimum 8 Heroes (I suggest more though) and at least 9-10 EC's since you will lose Evil Characters sort-of quickly if you are not careful and be sure to have the Babylonian Protect Fortress in case an Opponent plays Authority of Christ (P).
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: Red on August 29, 2012, 10:22:02 PM
For the most part I agree, use at very minimum 8 Heroes (I suggest more though) and at least 9-10 EC's since you will lose Evil Characters sort-of quickly if you are not careful and be sure to have the Babylonian Protect Fortress in case an Opponent plays Authority of Christ (P).
Reverse that. Always play more hero's than ECs, Heroes when the game. ECs don't.
Title: Re: Red/Babylonian 1st Attempt
Post by: megamanlan on August 30, 2012, 01:41:45 AM
EC's die easier then Heroes. But for me I always try to actually keep my Character ratio (good/evil) equal but because it's easier for EC's to die (because of too many Good battle-winners vs. Evil battle winners that are CBN/CBP/CBI) that unless you can play your few CB-something battlewinners first, you are going to be in sore need of EC's really quickly whereas you'll rarely have problems with losing all your Heroes unless you mess-up or are playing against a REALLY good defense + if you use cards like Chariot of Fire you'll quickly get your Discarded Heroes back as well. This is why I favor a bit more defense then offense if your trying for balanced and have some room in your Deck.
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal