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There are a lot of players that can pilot and pioneer strategies competently, but in general, a true meta deck in Redemption is a deck that has an efficient defense, draws, and searches well. The deck archetype should also have proven itself by placing consistently at Nationals.  It's reasonable to think of the "meta"  differently because of the size of this game.

Having worked to some degree with John on whatever he chooses to play at Nationals for a few years now I'm fairly confident to say that John figures out the meta and plays something that does well against it. John doesn't tend to play a meta deck.

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 20, 2019, 02:51:17 PM

consistently third hahaaa and lets be honest. Top cut was not as stacked as it could have been the turnout was lackluster at best. I'm not arguing that Flood isn't a viable strategy. All I am trying to get at is this, and I am almost embarrassed that the discussion has devolved to this, John Earley will continue to crush flood decks. The best answer to the question, "what is meta in Redemption?",  is usually, whatever John is playing.  Generally, meta decks usually have the qualities I have listed in my previous post. It's borderline arrogant to think that flood can compete with splash offenses that draw and search out what they need at (at the top level).  Just because a lot of people play a strategy does NOT make the deck meta. Until it wins nationals it's a cool, powerful strategy that can crush meta decks imo. Which, when you think about it is something that is right up some top players alleys and is somewhat refreshing. I hate meta decks because they are no fun to play against and they are actually not fun to pilot, only the consistent adrenaline rush from winning is fun. Personally, I get sick of all of the drawing and searching that spread offenses run in type 1 2 player  (some combination of judges/prophets/teal) but until this "strong horse" loses have fun losing with flood 

As someone who has experience with both flood and Throne, I'd honestly rather play against Throne, as it's a much easier deck to beat. Flood has the searching to get Ark and half their offense on turn one at minimum. And sure, Throne draws a lot of cards, but Flood's impossible to get rid of, and has consistent battle extension, a CBN in-territory negate, and a lot more.

I honestly don't know what other evidence you need that it's meta. It's a deck to tech around. It's powerful enough to earn multiple spots in top cut. It's fast, and it's hard to block. What else do you need to know?

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 24, 2019, 12:27:36 AM

Quote from: Asahel24601 on September 21, 2019, 11:57:35 AM

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 20, 2019, 02:51:17 PM

consistently third hahaaa and lets be honest. Top cut was not as stacked as it could have been the turnout was lackluster at best. I'm not arguing that Flood isn't a viable strategy. All I am trying to get at is this, and I am almost embarrassed that the discussion has devolved to this, John Earley will continue to crush flood decks. The best answer to the question, "what is meta in Redemption?",  is usually, whatever John is playing.  Generally, meta decks usually have the qualities I have listed in my previous post. It's borderline arrogant to think that flood can compete with splash offenses that draw and search out what they need at (at the top level).  Just because a lot of people play a strategy does NOT make the deck meta. Until it wins nationals it's a cool, powerful strategy that can crush meta decks imo. Which, when you think about it is something that is right up some top players alleys and is somewhat refreshing. I hate meta decks because they are no fun to play against and they are actually not fun to pilot, only the consistent adrenaline rush from winning is fun. Personally, I get sick of all of the drawing and searching that spread offenses run in type 1 2 player  (some combination of judges/prophets/teal) but until this "strong horse" loses have fun losing with flood 

As someone who has experience with both flood and Throne, I'd honestly rather play against Throne, as it's a much easier deck to beat. Flood has the searching to get Ark and half their offense on turn one at minimum. And sure, Throne draws a lot of cards, but Flood's impossible to get rid of, and has consistent battle extension, a CBN in-territory negate, and a lot more.

I honestly don't know what other evidence you need that it's meta. It's a deck to tech around. It's powerful enough to earn multiple spots in top cut. It's fast, and it's hard to block. What else do you need to know?

The "other" evidence we need is the deck consistently placing 1-2 at nationals. So, probably 3 years .

Deck results don't matter across multiple years. Every instance of new cards being released is a completely separate meta. It's arguable that even post and pre Nationals with the same card pool count as unique metas.

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 24, 2019, 03:01:44 PM

Quote from: Kevinthedude on September 24, 2019, 03:11:11 AM

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 24, 2019, 12:27:36 AM

Quote from: Asahel24601 on September 21, 2019, 11:57:35 AM

Quote from: MMHobbitWW on September 20, 2019, 02:51:17 PM

consistently third hahaaa and lets be honest. Top cut was not as stacked as it could have been the turnout was lackluster at best. I'm not arguing that Flood isn't a viable strategy. All I am trying to get at is this, and I am almost embarrassed that the discussion has devolved to this, John Earley will continue to crush flood decks. The best answer to the question, "what is meta in Redemption?",  is usually, whatever John is playing.  Generally, meta decks usually have the qualities I have listed in my previous post. It's borderline arrogant to think that flood can compete with splash offenses that draw and search out what they need at (at the top level).  Just because a lot of people play a strategy does NOT make the deck meta. Until it wins nationals it's a cool, powerful strategy that can crush meta decks imo. Which, when you think about it is something that is right up some top players alleys and is somewhat refreshing. I hate meta decks because they are no fun to play against and they are actually not fun to pilot, only the consistent adrenaline rush from winning is fun. Personally, I get sick of all of the drawing and searching that spread offenses run in type 1 2 player  (some combination of judges/prophets/teal) but until this "strong horse" loses have fun losing with flood 

As someone who has experience with both flood and Throne, I'd honestly rather play against Throne, as it's a much easier deck to beat. Flood has the searching to get Ark and half their offense on turn one at minimum. And sure, Throne draws a lot of cards, but Flood's impossible to get rid of, and has consistent battle extension, a CBN in-territory negate, and a lot more.

I honestly don't know what other evidence you need that it's meta. It's a deck to tech around. It's powerful enough to earn multiple spots in top cut. It's fast, and it's hard to block. What else do you need to know?

The "other" evidence we need is the deck consistently placing 1-2 at nationals. So, probably 3 years .

Deck results don't matter across multiple years. Every instance of new cards being released is a completely separate meta. It's arguable that even post and pre Nationals with the same card pool count as unique metas.

Deck results don't matter in determining what's meta in a game that never bans cards?  I hope you feel special using the world meta but it's probably the most over-used term on here. Deck results don't matter 

across multiple years is the key phrase here. Deck results do matter, but not nearly as much as some of the Redemption community believes. Nationals happens once a year in a specific geographic location with a very small subset of players. Drawing concrete conclusions from one tournament just doesn't seem reasonable.

Also, Redemption does ban cards as well as using errata to achieve essentially the same function.