Author Topic: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea (Read 2367 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** December 02, 2009, 03:50:17 PM »

Keep in mind first of all that I wrote a huge article called "Why I don't like Garden Tomb" several months back. Someone advised that I make one of my own, so here it is. Basically, I think a good Garden Tomb deck needs very few of its own evil characters in play, otherwise you risk hurting your own deck. Here is my latest idea.

Garden Tomb Type 1 Deck – 56 cards

8 Lost Souls – Hopper (does not count toward deck requirements), NT only, Female Only, Revealer, Lost Souls (2 line), First Round Protect, Site Doubler, Anti-Shuffler.

7 Sites – Pergamum, Babylonian Banquet Hall, Babylon x 5

6 Good Dominants – Grapes of Wrath, Guardian of Your Souls, Son of God, New Jerusalem, Angel of the Lord, Harvest Time

4 Evil Dominants – Destruction of Nehushtan, Burial, Christian Martyr, Falling Away

4 Artifacts – Three Nails, Golden Calf, Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant

2 Covenants – I am Grace, I am Patience

3 Curses – Captured Ark, Wastelands, Confusion of Mind

2 Fortresses – The Garden Tomb, Wall of Protection

12 heroes – Zaccheus, Angel of Warning (TxP), Joseph of Arimathea, King Hezekiah (Priests), Ethiopian Treasurer, Jepthah, Salome, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, Mary Magdalene, John, Peter

2 Hero Enhancements – Standing in the Gap, Authority of Christ Promo

4 Evil Characters – Women as Snares, Uzzah, The Amalekite Slave, King Jehoikin

2 Evil Enhancements – Torment, Confusion

Theory Behind the Deck: Garden Tomb is key (of course). 4 people to search for it, and 3 ways to protect it (Standing in the Gap, Hezekiah, I am Grace). Zaccheus can also get Wall of Protection, and Angel can get Wall AND any site that I want (probably Perg or Bab Hall). Revealer, Hopper, Harvest Time, and Am Slave give me lost souls quickly. Am Slave also helps to bring out a timely Women as Snares, King Jehoikin (for Confusion then maybe Grapes), or Uzzah. Confusion of Mind and Golden Calf are there to stop site-access characters and also FBTN characters. Wastelands, DON and Captured Ark are mainly there to stop site access artifacts and sites. Uzzah and Torment are there for a couple blocks, easily doable with potentially 9 cards in the “Artifact” pile. Confusion is just a favorite card of mine, especially if you can get a Son of God or maybe even a site access card, depending on what else I see in their deck. It is a good way to see how well they will be able to access my sites and then plan accordingly.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2009, 03:58:37 PM »

No offence, but I think your deck is much to slow to be competitive at the top level, It has no additonal drawing, and its at 56. It also doesn't have enough ways to clear out an opponents defense for TGT, any well built D with just about any Civ Fort will stop 2 of the 3 ways you have, (WaS, HG, and AoCP) For that matter it doesn't have any prevention for someone blocking one of your searchers and playing something nasty (Confusion anyone) The D isn't going to stop anyone either, if someone has even one Site access card besides D-Raid they will get through.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:15:28 PM »

I must agree, sorry. The defense won't hold 90% of decks more than 3-4 turns. With no drawing and only 2 enhancements, the offense has to wait for many turns before it works. Sites + tgt is an interesting idea, but as sites take a lot of space and tgt requires speed, I don't see it working very well.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:29:03 PM »

I thought of most of those issues. Not sure if you read everything, but site access characters should be handled with dominants, golden calf and confusion of mind. Site access artifacts should be covered with captured ark and DON. I can hopefully "confusion out" their site access anyway.

As for fortress protection, they don't work as well or as quickly as you may think. First of all, Hezekiah prevents Assyrian Camp's protection (just happened last night in fact). Babylonian protection fort is discard only, as you pointed out, but they also need to actually get it into play (like all evil protect fortresses). The odds that this will happen in the early game is small. Very few people play Syrian defense these days (in my experience), so Egyptians pose the single biggest threat, card for card. Spiritual Realm protects demons from capture but not discard, and Three Nails is in the deck too.

As for this deck being vulnerable to an early play of confusion (although I do have Standing in the Gap, which I could play BEFORE searching for TGT), you are right and I have no way to protect against that, and I will lose if they take Garden Tomb out. As for protection against speed, I've given up making anti-speed decks. However fast they are they still need site access.

I have discovered this recently though. The BEST defense against any rescue in the first round, IF I can go first, is to put my lost soul in a site. Actually in a Garden Tomb deck I would let them have one lost soul so that Garden Tomb will work. But I have just found that, all things being equal, having a lost soul in a site is the most efficient way to protect it at the start of the game, because the "odds" that my opponent has a site access card in their hand on the first turn is MUCH lower than the odds that I have one of 7 sites to put the lost soul in.

But thanks for the constructive criticism.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:37:49 PM »

I'd like to say something else. I am as sick of "speed" now as I was of Garden Tomb. I agree, speed rocks. So let's all create speed decks that draw out our whole deck in 5 turns, and then all our decks can look the same. Also, what kind of defense is in a super-fast speed deck? None or Splash? Why wouldn't that help this deck to get lost souls? If the average deck has 8 evil characters in it, the odds that you will quickly draw 2 or 3 are very slim, and they'd better be the same brigade too.

Is there anyone out there who is NOT using speed for their tournament deck? Does anyone use decks greater than 50 cards anymore? Is defense even dead in T-1 2-player now (like I was told it is dead in T-1 multi-player)?

Anyway, this deck was not made to compete at Nationals, and I just wanted to try to make a Garden Tomb deck for a change since I had ranted against it for so long. It has done well in our local gaming group. Thanks again for the ideas.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:41:16 PM »

ok, that makes sense. I still think it will be at a disadvantage to main decks, but I like making decks for the fun of it.

I would add Image of Jealousy. You have 2 brown ECs and it can get rid of an annoying hero or fort.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:01:01 PM »

Image of Jelousy isn't a bad idea. I sure wish it could get rid of Evil Fortresses

stefferweffer · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2009, 06:19:59 PM »

How's this for Garden Tomb + Speed?

Garden Tomb Type 1 Deck – 50 cards

8 Lost Souls – Hopper (does not count toward deck requirements), NT only, Female Only, Revealer, Lost Souls (2 line), First Round Protect, Anti-Burial, Shuffler.

6 Good Dominants – Grapes of Wrath, Guardian of Your Souls, Son of God, New Jerusalem, Angel of the Lord, Harvest Time

4 Evil Dominants – Destruction of Nehushtan, Burial, Christian Martyr, Falling Away

3 Artifacts – Three Nails, Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant

2 Covenants – I am Grace, I am Patience

2 Fortresses – The Garden Tomb, Wall of Protection

13 heroes – Zaccheus, Angel of Warning (TxP), Joseph of Arimathea, King Hezekiah (Priests), Ethiopian Treasurer, Jepthah, Salome, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, Mary Magdalene, John, Peter, Mephibosheth

6 Hero Enhancements – Standing in the Gap, Authority of Christ Promo, Prosperity, Reach of Desperation, Pentecost, First Fruits

4 Evil Characters – Women as Snares, Uzzah, The Amalekite Slave, Sabbath Breaker

12 Evil Enhancements – Torment, Confusion

Theory Behind the Deck: Draw cards fast and not be able to be blocked. Little to no defense.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2009, 06:26:17 PM »

Hey sw, another good defense for GT is to use sites + autoblock characters (especially the self-discarders like Zimri, Otho, and the pale green brothers). Couple that with some multi-color NT enhancements and you can try to take out their access cards.

hi123 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2009, 06:56:28 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 02, 2009, 03:50:17 PM

Keep in mind first of all that I wrote a huge article called "Why I don't like Garden Tomb" several months back. Someone advised that I make one of my own, so here it is. Basically, I think a good Garden Tomb deck needs very few of its own evil characters in play, otherwise you risk hurting your own deck. Here is my latest idea.

Garden Tomb Type 1 Deck – 56 cards

8 Lost Souls – Hopper (does not count toward deck requirements), NT only, Female Only, Revealer, Lost Souls (2 line), First Round Protect, Site Doubler, Anti-Shuffler.

7 Sites – Pergamum, Babylonian Banquet Hall, Babylon x 5

6 Good Dominants – Grapes of Wrath, Guardian of Your Souls, Son of God, New Jerusalem, Angel of the Lord, Harvest Time

4 Evil Dominants – Destruction of Nehushtan, Burial, Christian Martyr, Falling Away

4 Artifacts – Three Nails, Golden Calf, Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant

2 Covenants – I am Grace, I am Patience

3 Curses – Captured Ark, Wastelands, Confusion of Mind

2 Fortresses – The Garden Tomb, Wall of Protection

12 heroes – Zaccheus, Angel of Warning (TxP), Joseph of Arimathea, King Hezekiah (Priests), Ethiopian Treasurer, Jepthah, Salome, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, Mary Magdalene, John, Peter

2 Hero Enhancements – Standing in the Gap, Authority of Christ Promo

4 Evil Characters – Women as Snares, Uzzah, The Amalekite Slave, King Jehoikin

2 Evil Enhancements – Torment, Confusion

Theory Behind the Deck: Garden Tomb is key (of course). 4 people to search for it, and 3 ways to protect it (Standing in the Gap, Hezekiah, I am Grace). Zaccheus can also get Wall of Protection, and Angel can get Wall AND any site that I want (probably Perg or Bab Hall). Revealer, Hopper, Harvest Time, and Am Slave give me lost souls quickly. Am Slave also helps to bring out a timely Women as Snares, King Jehoikin (for Confusion then maybe Grapes), or Uzzah. Confusion of Mind and Golden Calf are there to stop site-access characters and also FBTN characters. Wastelands, DON and Captured Ark are mainly there to stop site access artifacts and sites. Uzzah and Torment are there for a couple blocks, easily doable with potentially 9 cards in the “Artifact” pile. Confusion is just a favorite card of mine, especially if you can get a Son of God or maybe even a site access card, depending on what else I see in their deck. It is a good way to see how well they will be able to access my sites and then plan accordingly.

didnt you youse that same deck against me a couple weeks ago, and if I remember well it was annoying, but I think everyone uses garden tomb now, I use to use it,and won a tournoment with it but I think it will be a while before I go back to garden tomb, but that deck that I yoused was speed as well.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2009, 09:30:35 PM »

No, the deck I won the last tournament with was White NT women and sites, but it did have Garden Tomb in it. You got annoyed when I kept banding to your Joanna for access to your green sites

hi123 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2009, 08:07:56 AM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on December 02, 2009, 03:58:37 PM

No offence, but I think your deck is much to slow to be competitive at the top level, It has no additonal drawing, and its at 56. It also doesn't have enough ways to clear out an opponents defense for TGT, any well built D with just about any Civ Fort will stop 2 of the 3 ways you have, (WaS, HG, and AoCP) For that matter it doesn't have any prevention for someone blocking one of your searchers and playing something nasty (Confusion anyone) The D isn't going to stop anyone either, if someone has even one Site access card besides D-Raid they will get through.

Yah right, him and I play almost every week, and that is the best Garden tomb deck i have ever seen.

hi123 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2009, 08:09:57 AM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 02, 2009, 09:30:35 PM

No, the deck I won the last tournament with was White NT women and sites, but it did have Garden Tomb in it. You got annoyed when I kept banding to your Joanna for access to your green sites

Oh yah I remember, I really should have had a Wall of Protection

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Author Topic: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea (Read 2367 times)

stefferweffer

My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

Red Dragon Thorn

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

Cameron the Conqueror

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

stefferweffer

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

stefferweffer

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

Cameron the Conqueror

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

stefferweffer

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

stefferweffer

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

EmJayBee83

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

hi123

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

stefferweffer

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

hi123

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea

hi123

Re: My Type 1 2-Player Garden Tomb Deck idea