Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Out:
DragonRaid (Any concentrated site-lock deck is going to kill this off quickly. You have Levi and Joseph [for Samarias] and that should be enough.)
Bronze Laver (No need for this in a deck this size. Any defense you draw you're going to want on hand.)
Chariot of Fire (Genesis doesn't really need this - too many solid options to really be required.)
Captain of the Host (Kills Zeb's ability, and you have better options than a Jacob + Captain band.)
Jacob Buries the Foreign Gods (Not a very good card in my opinion - easily negated.)
Evil Spirit (Not good against banding or NT offenses - too situational.)

In:
Gomer
Haman's Plot
Judah
Simeon
Levi
Harvest Time
Creation of the World

I agree, except with CotH. Zebulun's ability is going to be way more situational than a FbtN character who can't be stopped by Writ, let alone one Jacob can band to.

CoTH can stopped by writ according to the play as 


Captain of the Host (Ki)

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Negate all non-weapon class special abilities except banding. • Play As: Negate all special abilities on Characters and Enhancements (except banding, weapons, and Captain’s special abilities). • Identifiers: OT Male Angel, Prophet • Verse: Joshua 5:14 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Rare)

Writ only captures humans.

Ahh true. Also, Joseph in Prison is listed under good enhancements, is that a mistake?

I agree with Chronic. Even just the draw 1 of Zebby makes him better than CotH in my book, not to mention the potential for the pre-block ignore. I also agree with the other changes Chronic suggested.

There is no reason you need to choose between CotH and Zebulun. Use them both. I used multiple copies of both in my T2 Nats winning Genesis offense. I can't see any good reason they won't work just as well in T1.

The main thing is that Captain does in fact keep Zeb from working. If one is dedicated to using CotH, then yes, I'd say Zeb should still be in. However, I think a Genesis deck functions better without him. If CM has already been played, I'd rather throw all my enhancements into Storehouse and have a Zeb with two cards in hand than a Captain who's vulnerable to CBN enhancements such as Plot (a staple in most decks). Additionally, Zeb can be brought back by Asher or Cupbearer, counts as a human/Genesis Hero for Eve, counts for Creation of the World, and at his absolute worst, is still a D1 if you can't make a rescue. By the way OP, I would take out one more card (probably Obedience of Noah) to add Holy Grail, because it's use with Cupbearer is fantastic, on top of it's general usefulness.

I've lost track of the number of times I had both out, rescued with Zeb and my opponent just assumed they could not block him so they gave me the LS. And we're talking T2 players here, not n00bs.

I once won a game when both my opponent and myself were using Genesis, and I used Grail to convert his A Slave after he made a rescue with Zebulun. Good times. At any rate, you do make good points, but I think the only thing I'd be willing to take out for Captain would be Judah, and I'd prefer digging Joseph out of the discard pile to Captain.

I've tried using just Levi for access before, it never works out well, I either use all me enhancements trying to keep him alive or he dies and I can't rescuse anymore.

Simeon/Levi is one of the best plays Genesis has, especially in the current T1 meta, where defense is sparse. I have won games simply abusing Simeon (with Levi banded in just in case) because my opponent would only have one or two defensive cards in hand and none in play, allowing me to keep him from ever putting forth a strong defense. I would argue that no Genesis offense is competitive without these two, regardless of how you feel about the site access.

I used to play with Creation of the World, but it would be negated every time, so I took it out, plus I have Eve, Rachael, massive drawing, and Stone Pillar at Bethel to get out any heros I need.

Then use it better. An early Creation of the World is essentially a win for Genesis, provided it's handled intelligently (read: anything except against black brigade). If Eve is in the draw pile when used, it helps you draw defense, it lets you use Simeon, Jacob, Dan (maybe), Zeb, etc. While it's largely situational, the benefits (even mid-game) are too large to ignore. If you're finding that it's being negated, use it with Angel of the Lord or a Joseph enhancement in hand (to play off Jacob). The card is less about getting out heroes you need and more about speeding the deck and potentially winning a soul by banding 1-10 heroes into battle, almost guaranteeing  a rescue. Furthermore, what "massive drawing"? From what I can tell, you have a potential for 15 draws, half of which is off of Seven Years (which you must get out early to use effectively, and even then, seven turn games aren't unlikely). 3 cards off of Baker, 3 off of The Dreaming Pharaoh (if you're lucky - you have to have almost all of your defense in play to be able to use him for the full +3, and you'll rarely get more than one block off of him), +2 off of Swift Horses (same concern as TDP, and if you do place it on him in territory, it makes him a target for AotL, HG, etc). In general, with my Genesis deck, I don't usually get more than 10 draws off of it total, something that Sam and Disciples/Gardensciples laughs at.

Bronze Laver is amazing with Egyptian Magicians, plus if I can't use Evil Spirit because my opponent is using a NT offense (which only happens half the time) then I use it as Bronze Laver fodder.

Both of these cards are fluff, and there are better options. Bronze Laver is amazing with EM I agree, but if that card is buried, you're essentially looking at a dead card for the rest of the game. You can't add a card based on one possible play with questionable benefits. Evil Spirit isn't any better. Three of the five top offenses are NT, one of the OT offenses is heavily banding based, and you're unlikely to get much initiative against the last one (Genesis).

HT seems pointless with all the LS generation this deck has.  Jacob Buries Foregin gods is awsome on Benny, plus it nukes HHI for capt band, unknown nation, and and coutless other annoying idols.

Any speed deck needs HT - Genesis doesn't have nearly as much soul generation as you think it does. JBtFG doesn't target Unknown Nation, because it only depicts an idol - it is not one. Really, the only card that's used even close to commonly is HHI, and nobody really uses it in T1 right now.

I was actually thinking of taking Zeb out because I never get to use him.  With all the drawing this deck does, even with a Storehouse I always have too many cards in hand to make his ability effective.

Genesis relies on small hand sizes. If you can't manage to keep your hand small, then honestly, Genesis probably doesn't fit your play style enough to use.

Relying on another hero (Asher) to get back other heros doesn't work well, becasue Asher will most likely die in battle, so I'll only ever get 1-2 heros back a game, which doesn't work well with my playing style.

The only hero you'll ever really need to get back is Joseph, and you should have Rachel and Judah for that. If you've lost all three of those heroes, Ben, and Zebulun, Chariot of Fire isn't going to save you.

I don't mean any of this insultingly, but Genesis requires a specific play style to be able to play it effectively, and from your comments, it sounds like you might be better off playing a different speedy offense (Sam actually sounds perfect for your play style). By all means, play whatever deck you have fun and find success with, but I don't anticipate you winning many high-level games with this deck.

I don't understand how certain cards don't work with your play style, can you explain?

I posted the deck because I'm looking for advice, it just that the advice I've gotten either I've tried or I don't see the point in it.  I don't like Zeb because I'm not good at keeping a small hand.  I don't like simeon and levi cause I've played them before and they never last more than a few turns against the kind of decks I've played.  I don't like creation of the workd because it has been negated in every game I've used it in.  I don't like HT because this deck can generate 3 LS easy, usually more depending on how many times I get to use Joseph before Pharaoh.  I also posted this deck because I haven't played it againt some of the new themes and I wanted advice on how this kind of deck does against those themes, like gates of samera, gardensiples, sam, ect.   

Bronze Laver is one of my fav cards, so since there is a cool card to use it with in this deck, I'm gonna use it, even if others think its fluff.  I have found so many uses for it in this deck, usually to recycle evil doms that I don't use as much ( I hardly ever use mayhem or DoN, FA after my opponent plays guardian), add evil characters to my deck to get out with am. slave, recycling evil spirit if they use NT, and of couse egy. magicians for extra drawing of inish or banding.  I don't like how small this defense is already, so I don't want to take out a CBN battle winner, even if I can only use it half the time (and use it for bronze laver fodder the other half)

I would consider using some of the cards suggested, like simeon/levi, if there were cards in my deck I could take out, but everything in the deck is either necessary or cards I really like playing with this strategy.  I don't know all of the different possibilities out there for a Genesis deck, so unless I post it, I'll never learn of the different posibilities, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with how other people use it.  I really do appreciate the advice, and I have strongly considered all of it, it's just that I like the cards I would have to take out of the deck better than the ones I would add in

Quote

I used to play with Creation of the World, but it would be negated every time, so I took it out, plus I have Eve, Rachael, massive drawing, and Stone Pillar at Bethel to get out any heros I need.

Then use it better. An early Creation of the World is essentially a win for Genesis, provided it's handled intelligently (read: anything except against black brigade).

Remind me to tell you about the time I removed Bret's entire offense in the first turn from the game.  Good times.

I think I will try taking out CoF, blue tassels, and DR for judah, simeon, and levi.  It makes me really uncomfortable to run a deck without those cards (they are staples in almost any deck I make) but I am willing to try

i was thinking judah would replace blue tassels cause he gets back captured heros and levi would punish them for capturing characters.  ive never used judah before cause before the new joseph came out he was pretty useless imo