Author Topic: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea  (Read 5130 times)

Offline joezim007

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Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« on: September 24, 2011, 10:07:17 PM »
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Here's what I currently have for my defense. It's a Israelite/Judean King combo. In that sense it's a pretty simple concept, but I have one pretty amazing combo in there that I think is pretty amazing. Using Gates of Samaria, I can beef up one of the Kings to some pretty high numbers (either King Ahab because he's already pretty high - except he has a pretty nice ability when banded to Jezebel - or King Omri because he's got the second highest toughness of the lot and his ability is pretty useless once I get a Samaria site or 2 out), then set him aside with Jeroboam's Idolatry. For several turns I'll be forcing my opponent to waste his/her first enhancement (unless they have some "utility" enhancements), depleting them of good battle winners more quickly.

Anyway, here are the cards:

Evil Characters:(7)
King Ahab (RA2)
Jezebel (RA2)
King Joram
King Omri
King Amon (Di)
King Manasseh (Di)
King Zedekiah

Evil Enhancements:(7)
Image of Jealousy (TP)
Jeroboam's Idolatry
Stiff-Necked
Breaking Jerusalem's Wall
Wickedness of the Tenants
Haman's Plot
Dungeon of Malchiah

Evil Fortresses:(2)
Gates of Jerusalem
Gates of Samaria

Anything that you think can be improved upon, let me know.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2011, 10:12:24 PM »
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Here's what I currently have for my defense. It's a Israelite/Judean King combo. In that sense it's a pretty simple concept, but I have one pretty amazing combo in there that I think is pretty amazing. Using Gates of Samaria, I can beef up one of the Kings to some pretty high numbers (either King Ahab because he's already pretty high - except he has a pretty nice ability when banded to Jezebel - or King Omri because he's got the second highest toughness of the lot and his ability is pretty useless once I get a Samaria site or 2 out), then set him aside with Jeroboam's Idolatry. For several turns I'll be forcing my opponent to waste his/her first enhancement (unless they have some "utility" enhancements), depleting them of good battle winners more quickly.

Anyway, here are the cards:

Evil Characters:(7)
King Ahab (RA2)
Jezebel (RA2)
King Joram
King Omri
King Amon (Di)
King Manasseh (Di)
King Zedekiah

Evil Enhancements:(7)
Image of Jealousy (TP)
Jeroboam's Idolatry
Stiff-Necked
Breaking Jerusalem's Wall
Wickedness of the Tenants
Haman's Plot
Dungeon of Malchiah

Evil Fortresses:(2)
Gates of Jerusalem
Gates of Samaria

Anything that you think can be improved upon, let me know.

Looks pretty good. King Rehoboam (Di) would be nice though.

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 7 / 6 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: If blocking, select any two Heroes in territories to fight each other. Protect this character from opponent's cards during that battle. • Play As: If blocking, select any two Heroes in territories to fight each other (side battle). Protect this character from opponent's cards during that battle. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Judah), Royalty, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Kings 12:1 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2011, 10:34:20 PM »
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He was definitely highly considered, but I tried to keep the Kings of Israel = to Kings of Judah. If there is room for another card after I get the rest of the deck constructed, I'll definitely add him in.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2011, 12:45:04 AM »
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Idk who King Joram is so that probably means he should go out for someone better. Definitely needs Gibeonite Trickery.
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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 12:47:08 AM »
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Idk who King Joram is so that probably means he should go out for someone better. Definitely needs Gibeonite Trickery.

Lets you draw 1 if you have a Samaria site in play.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2011, 11:43:15 PM »
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Idk who King Joram is so that probably means he should go out for someone better. Definitely needs Gibeonite Trickery.

I use him in a full-fledged GoS deck, but would probably cut him if the defense was Israel/Judah split. In this particular case, I would use Jeroboam I instead of him, since he can fetch/recur Jeroboam's Idolatry (interesting card, if it said 0/1 I would definitely use it, but 0/2, not to mention taking 1/7th of your blockers out of commission, is kind of steep even for your average */7 King).

Also, you definitely need a more reliable way to deal with King David than Image of Jealousy. Unlike most brown defenses which have Gomer, Uzzah, and or The Amalekite's Slave, less than zero percent of your blockers can block King David. Unholy Writ/Covenant with Death may help, but if a deck uses King David, they can get him out pretty quick via Samuel, and you have to hope that you get CM or Gates and a couple quick Samarias.
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2011, 09:11:13 AM »
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Great points. I actually was looking and decided to remove Joram and replace him with Nadab and Jeroboam I. I had originally cut them because Manasseh and Amon were a bit nicer and I originally didn't have Jeroboam's Idolatry in there so I figured Jeroboam I's ability was useless. Plus replacing the one guy with 2 guys means that Jeroboam's Idolatry removes a smaller portion of my defense from play. The fact that Jeroboam I and Manasseh are both good to have in the discard pile, I don't mind sacrificing them too much with Idolatry.
As for King David, I do have Unholy Writ in there, but I agree. He can totally wipe out my defense's usefulness in a moment and the fact that I didn't think about that sooner is pretty bad because I've tried both King decks previously and run into problems with him. Unholy Writ, Christian Martyr, and Image of Jealousy should be enough to take care of him, though I think, especially since I can get Image of Jealousy back from the discard pile with Nadab or Amon.
I'd consider throwing someone like Uzzah or Gomer in there, but I'm already out of space. This is a relatively large defense, especially for T1 2P where so many decks have almost no defense, so this is leaving me with little room for an offense.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 09:22:08 AM by joezim007 »

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2011, 01:27:00 PM »
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Great points. I actually was looking and decided to remove Joram and replace him with Nadab and Jeroboam I. I had originally cut them because Manasseh and Amon were a bit nicer and I originally didn't have Jeroboam's Idolatry in there so I figured Jeroboam I's ability was useless. Plus replacing the one guy with 2 guys means that Jeroboam's Idolatry removes a smaller portion of my defense from play. The fact that Jeroboam I and Manasseh are both good to have in the discard pile, I don't mind sacrificing them too much with Idolatry.
As for King David, I do have Unholy Writ in there, but I agree. He can totally wipe out my defense's usefulness in a moment and the fact that I didn't think about that sooner is pretty bad because I've tried both King decks previously and run into problems with him. Unholy Writ, Christian Martyr, and Image of Jealousy should be enough to take care of him, though I think, especially since I can get Image of Jealousy back from the discard pile with Nadab or Amon.
I'd consider throwing someone like Uzzah or Gomer in there, but I'm already out of space. This is a relatively large defense, especially for T1 2P where so many decks have almost no defense, so this is leaving me with little room for an offense.

If you take the kings of Judah along with gates of jerusalem and maybe one Evil enhancement, that gives you room for Uzzah, Gomer, Jeroboam I, Joram, and Jerobaom's Idolatry. Also Judges seem like they could be a good, relatively small Offense for this defense.
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Offline Isildur

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2011, 01:39:56 PM »
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To the OP I'm curious as to what your offense because I can manage to fit 30+ cards of defense into a deck with a reasonable offense no problem.
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 01:46:44 PM »
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This is meant to be a 50-56 card deck. If you have a 30 card defense, then you add 7doms and 7 Lost Souls, then you have 12 cards left for offense at best. Plus you need Artifacts and maybe Sites (which are necessary for this defense because of the benefits received with Samaria sites. Tell me what offense you use that allows you to fit a 30 card defense into a 56 card deck.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 02:07:22 PM »
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This is meant to be a 50-56 card deck. If you have a 30 card defense, then you add 7doms and 7 Lost Souls, then you have 12 cards left for offense at best. Plus you need Artifacts and maybe Sites (which are necessary for this defense because of the benefits received with Samaria sites. Tell me what offense you use that allows you to fit a 30 card defense into a 56 card deck.

How about this...

12 cards

fortresses
D&A
Goshen

Heroes
Job
Zebby maybe
Angel at Shur
angel of warning
the angel that bands to blue

GEs
Abes grown man kids
Job's Faith
Sign of the Rainbow
Protection of Jerusalem
Protection of Angels maybe 

« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 02:32:32 PM by Red Wing »
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2011, 01:44:49 PM »
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Thanks for everyone's help. I decided to just stick with the Kings of Israel instead of mixing in Kings of Judah, which gave me room to add some non-royal characters to help me out. Also, I went with a red offense. I don't think it'll perform too well, but I've been wanting to try a red offense for quite some time and I really just needed something in the deck in order to test the defense. Full deck is listed below. One thing to note: I'm expecting the #Doms=#LS to pass eventually so I'm kinda gimping my deck by following the rule already.

Heroes
Adino
Ahimelek the Hittite
Asahel
Centurion at Calvary
Jael
Jephthah
Spy
Naharai

Good Enhancements
-Spear for Adino-
Warrior's Spear
-Set-Asides-
Mustering for War
Passover & Unleavened Bread
The Lord Fights for You
-Battle Winners-
Freedom!
Baggage
Power of the Cross
Trumpet and Sword
-Negate-
The Battle is the Lord's

Evil Characters
King Ahab (RA2)
Jezebel (RA2)
King Omri
King Nadab
King Jeroboam I
Uzzah
Gomer

Evil Enhancements
-Set-Asides / Territory-
Jeroboam's Idolatry
Image of Jealousy
-Battle Winners-
Breaking Jerusalem's Wall
Dungeon of Malchiah
Gibeonite Trickery
Haman's Plot
Land Purchase
Wickedness of the Tenants

Dominants
Son of God
New Jerusalem
Angel of the Lord
Guardian of Your Souls / Harvest Time (which do you think?)
Christian Martyr
Burial
Falling Away

Artifacts
Unholy Writ
Priestly Crown
Altar of Incense

Fortresses
Stronghold in the Desert
Gates of Samaria

Sites
Dragon Raid (unnecessary? Probably not with my playgroup)
Samaria
Samaria
Samaria

Lost Souls
7 of the best Lost Souls that I had left over. Note I have Can't be Prevented in there to beef up the defense even more.

Total: 55 Cards

Offense is built to remove your evil characters from play in some way (Ahimelek, Jephthah, Passover, Lord Fights For You, etc) so that every time a character is played into territory Stronghold in the Desert does some magic (may come to bite me in the but with Jezebel in there). Also, every battle winner on offense is a different ability: convert, remove from game, capture, discard. This way if they have some protection from one or two things, I still have something that can win the battle.

You can leave comments if you want to, but I just felt like posting it back up here to let you know what became of this defense.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2011, 02:39:49 PM »
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I'd make the following changes....

Out
Jael
Adino
Japhthah
Naharai
Warrior's spear
baggage
Power of the Cross
The Lord Fights For You
Altar of incense
Trumpet and Sword
passover and unleavened Bread

In
Ismaiah the Gibeonite
Samuel
David (red)
Uriah the Hittite
Foreign Sword
Counsel of Abigail
A Soldiers Prayer
David's Triumph
Bravery of David
Chariots of Fire
king Saul Evil 
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 03:08:55 PM »
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I'd make the following changes....

Out
Jael
Adino
Japhthah
Naharai
Warrior's spear
baggage
Power of the Cross
The Lord Fights For You
Altar of incense
Trumpet and Sword
passover and unleavened Bread

In
Ismaiah the Gibeonite
Samuel
David (red)
Uriah the Hittite
Foreign Sword
Counsel of Abigail
A Soldiers Prayer
David's Triumph
Bravery of David
Chariots of Fire
king Saul Evil 


Can you give good reasons for all of these? Who would get rid of Jephthah? I also hate Counsel of Abigail because I've run into too many situations where the enhancement I need to interrupt specifies "hero in battle" which means it doesn't change a thing.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 03:18:50 PM »
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I'd make the following changes....

Out
Jael
Adino
Japhthah
Naharai
Warrior's spear
baggage
Power of the Cross
The Lord Fights For You
Altar of incense
Trumpet and Sword
passover and unleavened Bread

In
Ismaiah the Gibeonite
Samuel
David (red)
Uriah the Hittite
Foreign Sword
Counsel of Abigail
A Soldiers Prayer
David's Triumph
Bravery of David
Chariots of Fire
king Saul Evil 


Can you give good reasons for all of these? Who would get rid of Jephthah? I also hate Counsel of Abigail because I've run into too many situations where the enhancement I need to interrupt specifies "hero in battle" which means it doesn't change a thing.

Ismaiah is awesome for banding and drawing
Samuel is great to search for David and Saul to draw and banding
Uriah decent SA, good numbers, and is a Canaanite for foreign Sword
David makes samuel great and Bravery CBN
Foreign Sword to good not to use
Counsel of Abigail: I dont really understand why you dont like it.
A soldiers Prayer can search out your best GEs and then get them back
Bravery of David: again, to good not use
Chariots: Great to save heroes from discard
David's Triumph: ItB, Discard a male human EC in battle, CBN against Philies. Need I say more?
king saul: king of Israel and makes Samuel better   

As for what I suggested to take out...

Jael: Ashael does the same thing and is better Numbers
Adino: ok with a spear but there are better options
Jephath: again not bad but better choices
Naharai: good numbers, but you only have 1 weapon...
Warrior's spear isnt needed if adino isnt in there
Baggage and Power of the Cross are ok but are both non interrupt single effect negateable battle winners
Altar of Incense isnt needed
Trump and sword: you have no Tabernacle Priests
P&U Bread: just isn't that great.
The Lord Fights for You: probably unneeded 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 03:38:25 PM by Red Wing »
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2011, 05:06:01 PM »
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Random points I'd like to make:

Foreign Sword: I think I have too few Canaanites to make it reliable, though it may still be a usable negate anyway. Plus I don't think that "return that card to the top of owner's deck" is "too good." Also, this is in another deck so I don't have one available anyway.

Adino: I really liked the idea of negating all the enhancements. It won me a lot of battles way back when (before Priests set).

Chariot of Fire vs Altar of Incense: This is a coin toss. This allows me to get Uriah back if he discards himself, but Altar of Incense can prevent an opponent from discarding me. I like the idea of bring Uriah back though, so I'll use Chariot.

Jael: Always good to have a female hero for the times when the opponent only has the Female-Only LS out. I will concede on this point though, because you're right that Asahel already has her ability and the replacements work together better.

Samuel: Love the drawing, but wishing he could band so someone who had some more banding to create a big banding party for Ishmaiah.

Baggage and Power of the Cross: Very true. There are a lot of good interrupting/negating enhancements, but now there's so much discarding. If anyone is protected from discard, I have few options left.

A Soldier's Prayer: I don't own it :(

Trumpet and Sword: You only need a priest for the first part. I can still discard X evil characters, which can be quite a few (#OT Warrior Heroes)

Counsel of Abigail: I decided to agree with you. There are very few instances that really make this card useless, and there are enough other interrupts/negates that I don't have to rely on this card, so it's ok.

Passover & Unleavened Bread: Why isn't this that great? Foreign Sword needs to be played in battle and puts characters on the top of deck... this activates with the hero being put into battle to remove an opponent's option and puts them on the bottom of deck.

Overall I like your suggestions because the battle winners can interrupt (necessary with big numbers/banding) and because there is more speed. I have made a few tweaks due to missing cards and my own opinion, though. It doesn't promote the Stronghold in the Desert as much, but that's ok, because winning the lost souls is what matters.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2011, 05:12:12 PM »
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Ashael banded to Ismaiah banded to Abishai banded to Ahmelek is a great banding combo. Especially with Foreign Sword.  :)
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 05:52:31 PM »
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Yea, but's there's no Abishai in this deck. Not that it isn't good without Abishai, but you mentioned him when he's not in the deck... I could add him though. This is still a 55 card deck.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 10:19:20 PM »
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Yea, but's there's no Abishai in this deck. Not that it isn't good without Abishai, but you mentioned him when he's not in the deck... I could add him though. This is still a 55 card deck.

Abishai would be a good add, but you might want to think about taking Stronghold in the desert. If it gets discarded, then all the heroes in it get discarded as well.
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 09:43:55 AM »
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True, but I probably wouldn't be using it to protect my heroes that much. I'd just use it for the discard mostly. And as long as I have a couple heroes not in there, I can get them back with Chariot.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2011, 10:37:47 AM »
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True, but I probably wouldn't be using it to protect my heroes that much. I'd just use it for the discard mostly. And as long as I have a couple heroes not in there, I can get them back with Chariot.

I was just thinking it could be replaced for something better. I've found Ammy's slave and Shimei's malicious Curse to handy in this Defense. :)
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2011, 10:52:50 AM »
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I had thought of AS for a while, but I had decided I needed to keep the defense a little more slim and now with Saul in there... I really shouldn't be adding any more evil characters. SMC could be helpful, especially with the rising numbers from Gates and the already low-ish initiative on several characters.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2011, 10:54:51 AM »
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I had thought of AS for a while, but I had decided I needed to keep the defense a little more slim and now with Saul in there... I really shouldn't be adding any more evil characters. SMC could be helpful, especially with the rising numbers from Gates and the already low-ish initiative on several characters.

I would suggest play-testing it now.
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Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2011, 11:15:07 AM »
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I would suggest play-testing it now.

That may be the best suggestion I've gotten so far. :P I have to wait until tomorrow before I can though.

Offline joezim007

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Re: Israelite/Judean King Defense Idea
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 12:38:19 PM »
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I have reaffirmed my hatred for Counsel of Abigail, though I realized that I think you were telling me to add the new Counsel of Abigail, not the old one. I forgot about the new one because it's in a different deck. Anyway the old Counsel of Abigail is failing miserably most times because the card that I'm redirecting will still kill me or both of us.

All in all, though, this deck is doing moderately well. The defense works well unless Gates of Samaria is discarded or doesn't show up until too late, but there is generally enough speed in the deck. I've accidentally won a few too many fights with it though, because my friend keeps playing against it with Judges and his Jair protects from decrease, but we forget and he loses. :P Oh well. Same thing when I used Hunger in a different deck against him. You'd think we'd have figured it out by now.

Defense becomes pretty weak late game after I've exhausted most of the enhancements and Battle Winner chars. I keep getting Nadab early and he loses early on so I never get to bring back my enhancements. After that there are too many bigger guys that never get the initiative they need, and then when they do get their initiative the enhancements are 'cannot be PREVENTED' so they still interrupt and win anyway.

 


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