Cactus Game Design Message Boards

How good are they

Not really at all.

Why not? They have two CBN Battle winners, a protect fort, a way to negate Heroes, and they can use wrath of satan, devourer, and foolish advice. Don't forget Foreign Sword. 

Foreign sword is only truly powerful on offense.  Canaanites don't have really good characters.

They don't have good characters but there enhancements are alright.

They are somewhat effective, but are overshadowed by much better defenses.

So you're saying that....

...Black is weak?

Schechem, Jezebel, Lot's Wife, Lot's Daughters, Abinedab, Canaanite Delegates, Woman at Thebez, Bera King of Sodom, Sisera and I think one more.

That's 9 evil characters at the least. I consider that a solid defense. Not to mention they have 2 cbn battle winners, Sisera (who will be cbn against most top decks), King Ahab to add for a play-first with brown (I use the draw 4 play next), a character that removes a prophet, a GREAT fortress, and Pride of Simon to recur a cbn enhancement. What's not to like? Did I mention a curse that can discard sog by the first or second turn if they use a good dominant?

They'll be even better if they make the new rescue rule, they can generate plenty of souls.

Personally, I think they are amazing and I predict I will be using them all year. I'll keep you posted.

but most people don't use defense in T1

... because Speed + (Son of God/NJ, Burial, and a couple chump blocks) make a decent stalling tactic.

I'm hoping we'll see more defense when/if the dominant cap is instituted.  We'll probably see more defense if you can't use Son of God and NJ to deny opponent's rescues.

Yes, Canaanites have EC's, but they don't have very good ones. Lot's Wife is a universal bander, but isn't CBN like Gomer. Schechem can autoblock if they attack with a lone female and have no negation, which never happens. Jezebel can negatably send a Prophet to Obidaiah's Caves for a cost. Lot's Daughters have good initiative, but even then they lose it after a block. Abimelech seems to have a Hero's SA. Canaanite Delegates is probably the best of the lot, but they suffer from lack of enhancements in T1. Woman at Thebez is good for exactly one CBN block and then she's useless, being somewhat less powerful than Uzzah but still good. Bera King of Sodom is only good against Red, requires fluffy Sites, and I can't remember the last time a lone Red Hero went into battle without one of 9001 ITB's. Sisera would be amazing if he had lower numbers. As-is, he makes Enhancements CBN v. two very popular Brigades, but is himself of almost staggeringly perfect numbers to never get initiative against them. Prince of Tyrus is all but useless. King of Tyrus is not Black.

All in all, Canaanites have 1 amazing but off-brigade, 1 great, 2 or 3 good and a bunch of filler. Couple this with the fact that their only usable enhancements are Stone, Wrath, Trickery, Hunger, JiP, and Pride of Simon, and you can see why other brigades are better.

In case of confusion, Sisera is a GUY

Judges 4:22
Just then Barak came by in pursuit of Sisera, and Jael went out to meet him. “Come,” she said, “I will show you the man you’re looking for.” So he went in with her, and there lay Sisera with the tent peg through his temple—dead.

Canaanites are pretty good if you use them with Raider's Camp and Hormah.

Egyptians are easily the fastest defense currently, unless you're one of those crazy people who play all the banding Phillies + Ashdod + Every horses ever.  Dreaming Pharoah + Egyptian horses = D5 play next.  Problem is, they're useless in multi.

I disagree, actually. Dreaming Pharaoh is only good if you already have three Genesis Egyptians in play. Baker is great, but is only good when you're using Genesis on offense. I've only had one game where I got more than six draws from my defense, and that was incredibly lucky. Usually I get one d3 from Baker, and one or two draws from Pharaoh, and that exhausts Egyptians unless you're using them in bulk (in which case, you're better off with other defenses with better drawing capabilities). Egyptians will probably get you the most draw for a small amount of cards (my defense in my Genesis deck is seven cards), but the larger the defense the worse they become for speed.

Quote from: SomeKittens on September 19, 2011, 09:22:25 AM

Egyptians are easily the fastest defense currently, unless you're one of those crazy people who play all the banding Phillies + Ashdod + Every horses ever.  Dreaming Pharoah + Egyptian horses = D5 play next.  Problem is, they're useless in multi.

I disagree, actually. Dreaming Pharaoh is only good if you already have three Genesis Egyptians in play. Baker is great, but is only good when you're using Genesis on offense. I've only had one game where I got more than six draws from my defense, and that was incredibly lucky. Usually I get one d3 from Baker, and one or two draws from Pharaoh, and that exhausts Egyptians unless you're using them in bulk (in which case, you're better off with other defenses with better drawing capabilities). Egyptians will probably get you the most draw for a small amount of cards (my defense in my Genesis deck is seven cards), but the larger the defense the worse they become for speed.

My current deck has more defense than I usually play, to let my offense set up some of the nasty combos I've got.  It's pretty experimental at this point.  Swift horses can help with draw as well.

What does Grey have for drawing?

Namaan's chariots and Horses, proud Pharisee, Pretension and, emperor Vitellius.

Yes, all those and Sabbath Breaker.

If you remove the word "Canaanite" from the title of this thread, it can be answered in two words: Not very.