Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Red Wing on September 17, 2011, 12:20:58 PM
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How good are they ???
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Not really at all.
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Not really at all.
Why not? They have two CBN Battle winners, a protect fort, a way to negate Heroes, and they can use wrath of satan, devourer, and foolish advice. Don't forget Foreign Sword.
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Foreign sword is only truly powerful on offense. Canaanites don't have really good characters.
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Foreign sword is only truly powerful on offense. Canaanites don't have really good characters.
They don't have good characters but there enhancements are alright.
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They are somewhat effective, but are overshadowed by much better defenses.
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They are somewhat effective, but are overshadowed by much better defenses.
So you're saying that....
...Black is weak?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi378.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo227%2Frm137%2FYeahhhh.png&hash=8c1592f290aca90e4a2500fb60d4bc48f37b784d)
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They are somewhat effective, but are overshadowed by much better defenses.
Yep sums it up in a nut shell. They were thoroughly tested during play testing and are by far a blast to use but your wont be winning nats with them any time soon due to their lack of characters.
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Schechem, Jezebel, Lot's Wife, Lot's Daughters, Abinedab, Canaanite Delegates, Woman at Thebez, Bera King of Sodom, Sisera and I think one more.
That's 9 evil characters at the least. I consider that a solid defense. Not to mention they have 2 cbn battle winners, Sisera (who will be cbn against most top decks), King Ahab to add for a play-first with brown (I use the draw 4 play next), a character that removes a prophet, a GREAT fortress, and Pride of Simon to recur a cbn enhancement. What's not to like? Did I mention a curse that can discard sog by the first or second turn if they use a good dominant?
They'll be even better if they make the new rescue rule, they can generate plenty of souls.
Personally, I think they are amazing and I predict I will be using them all year. I'll keep you posted.
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There are 11 Canaanites total. They're pretty strong if built right, but most people don't use defense in T1.
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but most people don't use defense in T1
... because Speed + (Son of God/NJ, Burial, and a couple chump blocks) make a decent stalling tactic.
I'm hoping we'll see more defense when/if the dominant cap is instituted. We'll probably see more defense if you can't use Son of God and NJ to deny opponent's rescues.
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We'll probably see more defense if you can't use Son of God and NJ to deny opponent's rescues.
Mumble Mumble Mumble :-\
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Yes, Canaanites have EC's, but they don't have very good ones. Lot's Wife is a universal bander, but isn't CBN like Gomer. Schechem can autoblock if they attack with a lone female and have no negation, which never happens. Jezebel can negatably send a Prophet to Obidaiah's Caves for a cost. Lot's Daughters have good initiative, but even then they lose it after a block. Abimelech seems to have a Hero's SA. Canaanite Delegates is probably the best of the lot, but they suffer from lack of enhancements in T1. Woman at Thebez is good for exactly one CBN block and then she's useless, being somewhat less powerful than Uzzah but still good. Bera King of Sodom is only good against Red, requires fluffy Sites, and I can't remember the last time a lone Red Hero went into battle without one of 9001 ITB's. Sisera would be amazing if he had lower numbers. As-is, he makes Enhancements CBN v. two very popular Brigades, but is himself of almost staggeringly perfect numbers to never get initiative against them. Prince of Tyrus is all but useless. King of Tyrus is not Black.
All in all, Canaanites have 1 amazing but off-brigade, 1 great, 2 or 3 good and a bunch of filler. Couple this with the fact that their only usable enhancements are Stone, Wrath, Trickery, Hunger, JiP, and Pride of Simon, and you can see why other brigades are better.
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You say Bera isn't good because Red bands but you're saying Sisera is bad because he gives initiative. :o
I propose they are the fastest defense in the game. Yeah, I may be crazy. Or I may be right. :)
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In case of confusion, Sisera is a GUY :P
Judges 4:22
Just then Barak came by in pursuit of Sisera, and Jael went out to meet him. “Come,” she said, “I will show you the man you’re looking for.” So he went in with her, and there lay Sisera with the tent peg through his temple—dead.
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You say Bera isn't good because Red bands but you're saying Sisera is bad because he gives initiative. :o
I propose they are the fastest defense in the game. Yeah, I may be crazy. Or I may be right. :)
Or you might not have ever played Egyptians.
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Canaanites are pretty good if you use them with Raider's Camp and Hormah.
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You say Bera isn't good because Red bands but you're saying Sisera is bad because he gives initiative. :o
I propose they are the fastest defense in the game. Yeah, I may be crazy. Or I may be right. :)
Or you might not have ever played Egyptians.
Egyptians are easily the fastest defense currently, unless you're one of those crazy people who play all the banding Phillies + Ashdod + Every horses ever. Dreaming Pharoah + Egyptian horses = D5 play next. Problem is, they're useless in multi.
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Egyptians are easily the fastest defense currently, unless you're one of those crazy people who play all the banding Phillies + Ashdod + Every horses ever. Dreaming Pharoah + Egyptian horses = D5 play next. Problem is, they're useless in multi.
I disagree, actually. Dreaming Pharaoh is only good if you already have three Genesis Egyptians in play. Baker is great, but is only good when you're using Genesis on offense. I've only had one game where I got more than six draws from my defense, and that was incredibly lucky. Usually I get one d3 from Baker, and one or two draws from Pharaoh, and that exhausts Egyptians unless you're using them in bulk (in which case, you're better off with other defenses with better drawing capabilities). Egyptians will probably get you the most draw for a small amount of cards (my defense in my Genesis deck is seven cards), but the larger the defense the worse they become for speed.
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If by "fast" you mean draw lots of cards, then nothing can top gray.
Canaanites alone are decent. Combined with Philistines they're even better.
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Egyptians are easily the fastest defense currently, unless you're one of those crazy people who play all the banding Phillies + Ashdod + Every horses ever. Dreaming Pharoah + Egyptian horses = D5 play next. Problem is, they're useless in multi.
I disagree, actually. Dreaming Pharaoh is only good if you already have three Genesis Egyptians in play. Baker is great, but is only good when you're using Genesis on offense. I've only had one game where I got more than six draws from my defense, and that was incredibly lucky. Usually I get one d3 from Baker, and one or two draws from Pharaoh, and that exhausts Egyptians unless you're using them in bulk (in which case, you're better off with other defenses with better drawing capabilities). Egyptians will probably get you the most draw for a small amount of cards (my defense in my Genesis deck is seven cards), but the larger the defense the worse they become for speed.
My current deck has more defense than I usually play, to let my offense set up some of the nasty combos I've got. It's pretty experimental at this point. Swift horses can help with draw as well.
What does Grey have for drawing?
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Namaan's chariots and Horses, proud Pharisee, Pretension and, emperor Vitellius.
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Namaan's chariots and Horses, proud Pharisee, Pretension and, emperor Vitellius.
Yes, all those and Sabbath Breaker.
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I forgot to mention Heavy Taxes. Also with the Emperors you've got Roman prison and Denarius.
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If you remove the word "Canaanite" from the title of this thread, it can be answered in two words: Not very.
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Namaan's chariots and Horses, proud Pharisee, Pretension and, emperor Vitellius.
Wow. Yup, totally had a brain fart, couldn't remember any of those except PP.
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And even then, that list leaves out Heavy Taxes, Sabbath Breaker, and Denarius.
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Yeah, just didn't feel like doing a massive quote.
However, all I've seen is Phars. Emps get crushed by a simple CoT.
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Lolz. That's nice. I prefer drawing ten cards and cbn winning the battle. Hey, that's just me. If you don't like drawing that many cards, Canaanites are NOT for you. You can kill yourself with Egyptians and have my abigail protect against your failed objective if you want. Or I just draw Miriam first turn and you never block. Lol which is actually what happened last tourney... 8) Not my deck, but props to Brandon Abbott for the Miriam.
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I prefer drawing ten cards and cbn winning the battle.
Do you mind explaining how you reliably and consistently draw 10 with Canaanites?
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I prefer drawing ten cards and cbn winning the battle.
Do you mind explaining how you reliably and consistently draw 10 with Canaanites?
Define reliably. ;) Drawing 5 seems extremely consistent. They also have the best site in the game, imo.
Also converting Woman at Thebez to a red hero and having Ishmaiah might not be the fastest draw engine in the game, but it's the most original. ;D
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I'd say that even with 2 CBI caananites do't have any interrupts so that weakens them. Look, Egyptians have 3 CBN and they don't get a lot of playing time.
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Lolz. That's nice. I prefer drawing ten cards and cbn winning the battle. Hey, that's just me. If you don't like drawing that many cards, Canaanites are NOT for you. You can kill yourself with Egyptians and have my abigail protect against your failed objective if you want. Or I just draw Miriam first turn and you never block. Lol which is actually what happened last tourney... 8) Not my deck, but props to Brandon Abbott for the Miriam.
Pharaoh's throne room. If you don't have it, you're doing something wrong.
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I haven't used PTR in any of my decks.
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I haven't used PTR in any of my decks.
Have you been playing Egyptians? With such a small defense, the protect from conversion is great against HG.
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A Converted Dreaming Pharaoh lets me D5 on my own turn. I'll take that.
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Egyptian defenses are meant to fly through their deck, draw a bunch of cards, and get 2 max blocks and dom blocks. Hopes are the game is over by then. Failed Objective and Wonders Forgotten are the two aforementioned blocks.