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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: DDiceRC on September 09, 2009, 10:38:16 PM
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OK, I tried my hand at something using an older concept and some newer cards. I freely acknowledge my debt to several others who played these concepts before. However, I'm not really satisfied with my effort. I had 63 cards and cut it down to 56. I also want to stick to primarily a Genesis/Roman theme, since I happen to like those themes. Any more advice?
(Note: The advice "This deck concept is soooo old!","This deck stinks!", and "Don't go to Nationals!" are unnecessary, since I already know those. I'd prefer something more constructive. And I can only guess how somebody will make "This deck stinks!" sound constructive. :) )
Lost Souls (7)
Lost Souls
Woman Only
Revealer
Wanderer
Site Discard
Site Deck Discard
Human in play
Dominants (8 )
SoG
NJ
AotL
GoYS
Grapes
CM
Burial
DoN
Artifacts/Curses (5)
CoF
Priestly Crown
Confusion of Mind
Unknown Nation
Rain Becomes Dust
Sites/Fortresses (4)
Rome
WoP
Hormah
Promised Land
Blue Heroes (7)
Benjamin
Jacob (FooF)
Leah (TeP)
Levi
Sarah
Simeon
Zebulun
Silver Hero (1)
Angel at Shur
Good Enhancements (8 )
Abraham's Servant to Ur
Answer to Prayer
Buying Grain
Jacob Buries Foreign Gods
Journey to Egypt
Obedience of Noah (D)
Reuben's Torn Clothes
Shoes of Peace (F)
Gray ECs (6)
Emperor Augustus
Emperor Galba
Emperor Nero
King Menahem
Lying Spirit
Sabbath Breaker
Gray/Orange EC (1)
The Terrifying Beast
Gold EC (1)
Emperor Claudius
Evil Enhancements (8 )
Balaam's Disobedience
Chains
Heavy Taxes
Naaman's Chariots and Horses
Mask of Fear
Expelling the Jews
Lurking
Romans Destroy Jerusalem
Specific questions:
1) Am I overly concerned with site access? I haven't faced a site lockout deck, so maybe this is overkill.
2) Would King Hazael's fortress/artifact destruction potential make him a better choice than King Menahem? (If I have to have a non-Roman, I want a good one.)
3) I was considering Emperor Otho and Asher. Would you add one of those? In place of what?
4) Sabbath Breaker is a nice draw card, but is he a waste of space given his single use? (Truth in advertising: He worked successfully in 3 of 5 games for me.)
Thanks!
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When I do Genesis deck w/ Angel at the Shur, I always throw in Gathering of Angels. That is risky though but somehow I always benefit from it. It might help you. Put it in and try it a few games. If it doesn't help snatch it back out lol Also you might want to take out the wanderer for the site doubler. I prefer that better with the sites. Hides them easier XD
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1) Am I overly concerned with site access? I haven't faced a site lockout deck, so maybe this is overkill.
2) Would King Hazael's fortress/artifact destruction potential make him a better choice than King Menahem? (If I have to have a non-Roman, I want a good one.)
3) I was considering Emperor Otho and Asher. Would you add one of those? In place of what?
4) Sabbath Breaker is a nice draw card, but is he a waste of space given his single use? (Truth in advertising: He worked successfully in 3 of 5 games for me.)
1 - Yes. Promised Land, Levi, and Journey to Egypt should be sufficient. You can drop Priestly Crown
2 - Yes, but why not just go all Romans?
3 - Why not both? Otho for Hazael, and Asher for Angel at Shur
4 - I like him
Personally, I would replace P-Crown with Covenant of Noah
I would also replace Shoes of Peace with Numerous as the Stars
I would also replace either Sarah or Rain Becomes Dust with Captured Ark
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Site decks are nasty when built well. I had the following in my Genesis & Rome deck:
Jacob's Dream [bonus with also getting rid of their access to, say, Hormah]
Journey to Egypt [bonus with ignoring Egyptians!]
Priestly Crown
Promised Land [bonus with getting to use the hand-discard soul if you don't need PL for access]
With the two good enhancements also having numbers, none of them were really dead weight against a non-site deck except Priestly Crown. A good site deck can probably deal with all four of these anyways, if they were able to keep the cards that countered them. That's one nice thing about hand discard. But still, whether you think devoting all these cards is a good choice is your decision, based on how afraid you are of site decks.
Sabbath Breaker is very handy, not just for the drawing but also the good initiative to play B's Disobedience or Chains or what have you. Another neat trick: Use Obedience of Noah to choose Sabbath Breaker to block while Rain Becomes Dust is active.
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No Emperor Otho? I would do him instead of Manahem.
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OK, let's have some fun. I'm going to make a couple of changes in the deck, and explain my thought process here, both for cards added and for suggested cards not added. I want some critique (preferably gentle) of my thought process. I know decisions are mine, and players disagree on card values, but does it seem like I'm making decisions based on legitimate criteria?
(BTW, I'm not a newbie-started playing just as Warriors/CD decks came out- but I haven't played much since just before Priests came out, so I'm a newbie on the latest card sets. So themes weren't a big deal when I last played.)
1. Replace Priestly Crown with Covenant of Noah. Gives a negation ability while sacrificing one of several site access cards. Seems like a decent trade-off. Might change my mind if I get clobbered by site lockout decks.
2. Replace King Menahem with Emperor Otho. Makes the deck more Roman, and Menahem doesn't appear to be a favorite here. The ability to grab a really good card by chance is slim, and Otho's suicide block ability could be potentially game-saving.
3. Not replace Angel at Shur with Asher. I still like Asher's ability, but AaS gives some protection from human immunity or demon defense, plus it enables Jacob's banding ability. I still might squeeze Asher in, but for whom?
4. Not replace anything with Captured Ark. OK, I just don't have a Captured Ark, but I'm not really sold on its value in this deck.
5. Not add Gathering of Angels. It might be a great card, but it doesn't seem to fit what this deck tries to do.
6. Keep Sabbath Breaker. Low numbers and draw ability. Doing this, I also keep Rain Becomes Dust just in case.
7. Keep Sarah. I need a female Genesis hero for Simeon's ability, and I plan to use Leah in order to activate her ability, so Sarah becomes my fallback female.
8. Waver on replacing Shoes of Peace with Numerous as the Stars. If I read NatS correctly, it is effectively a way to band in a hero from my deck. I like that possibility. However, Shoes fits the discard theme of the deck, and provides an enhancement for Angel at Shur to use in an emergency. I'm still thinking about this.
9. Keep Wanderer LS. This enables me to switch it for NT Only or Women Only from my opponent's LoB.
10. Replace Human in play LS with Site Doubler. Good advice to add this LS. The HIP LS really is only effective against an all-angel offense (which one of my sons plays, but I can deal with that).
Comments?
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I forgot to mention one other key missing card from your deck. The artifact Stone Pillar at Bethel allows you to pull out NJ (to go with you SoG) or AotL, as well as anything else from your offense.
I agree with most changes, so I'll only comment on disagreements:
3. Not replace Angel at Shur with Asher. I still like Asher's ability, but AaS gives some protection from human immunity or demon defense, plus it enables Jacob's banding ability. I still might squeeze Asher in, but for whom?
Jacob's ability to play first is far better in a Genesis offense than banding to an angel. And Asher lets you get back all those yummy GEs to play first again :)
4. Not replace anything with Captured Ark. OK, I just don't have a Captured Ark, but I'm not really sold on its value in this deck.
If you don't have it, you don't have it. But there are a lot of annoying arts to a Genesis offense (G-Cow, CoM, HHI, UW, Burial Shroud, and the new Darius Decree). Being able to shuffle them away for 2 RAs is AWESOME!
8. Waver on replacing Shoes of Peace with Numerous as the Stars. If I read NatS correctly, it is effectively a way to band in a hero from my deck. I like that possibility. However, Shoes fits the discard theme of the deck, and provides an enhancement for Angel at Shur to use in an emergency. I'm still thinking about this.
NatS does indeed let you band from your deck. It makes it so much easier to get the Simeon/female combo out faster, which will end up discarding way more cards than Shoes of Peace. It also helps to beat the surprise block by KoT or PotW or Nero.
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You may want to consider Rebekah instead of Sarah because most of your enhancements you want to play before your opponent plays. The one exception is perhaps Abe's Servant but that's better used with a Simeon/Levi band.
Stone Pillar is a must for this deck.
I think Captured Ark is a way better choice than Rain Becomes Dust.
Considering the growing number of NT Garden Tomb decks, Emperor Claudius wouldn't be a bad choice either.
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FWIW I agree strongly with Prof U's advice. He's dead on.
Guardian is also giving solid advice also, but I have to question using Emperor Claudius as an answer to TGT since he would be your only gold EC and TGT would never let him block.
Just to emphasise a couple of points, if you can get your hands on a Captured Ark it will be very valuable to your deck.
Stone Pillar at Bethel (and Asher) are both great choices to add to any Genesis offense. Stone Pillar gives you a use for Journey to Egypt (and Jacob's Dream if you used it) when you're not facing Sites/Egyptians. More importantly it lets you grab key cards for your offense or the Dominants that Prof mentioned. Then Asher gets back whatever you threw away for Stone Pillar.
I faced the legendary Chris Bany at NC Regionals in T1. He was using a Genesis offense. He probably would have won our game if he had included Stone Pillar in his deck, but he didn't have it. I sat next to him another round where it would have helped him too. I'm 99% sure he added it after Regionals.
*edit*
I almost forgot to mention how much "this deck stinks"! ;) :laugh:
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Thanks for all the advice. I'm persuaded to make a couple more changes to get Asher, Numerous as the Stars, ans Stone Pillar into the deck. (Alas, no Captured Ark, not because it's not valuable, but because I don't currently have one.) I'll have to try it out a few times-hopefully I can hit a local sometime in the next couple of months-and see how it plays. IF all goes well, I'll post the "final" form here so everyone who gave advice can take credit for it. Although with me playing it may not be all that successful anyway. :) (While I was fairly well-known in the Redemption community back a ways, it was never for my playing prowess. Those of you who understand the significance of "Redemption New Jersey" know what I'm talking about.)
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Those of you who understand the significance of "Redemption New Jersey" know what I'm talking about.
Yeah baby! ;D
Guardian is also giving solid advice also, but I have to question using Emperor Claudius as an answer to TGT since he would be your only gold EC and TGT would never let him block.
Obviously Claudius is for AFTER he uses RDJ to get rid of TGT. ::)
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A quick thank you to those who insisted I include Numerous as the Stars in my deck. It has bailed my butt out twice against PotW (and would also work vs. Nero). Plus, I've used it to bring in Levi to band to Simeon, thus allowing the band to continue on subsequent turns. I too would now highly recommend this card for any Genesis offense deck.
Still looking for a Captured Ark...but the deck seems to be OK. It's biggest challenge so far was an old (pre-Priests) banding deck my wife used, It wouldn't be a viable tournament deck now with TGT and other new cards that counter spread brigades, but it gave me trouble in a couple of games with big, multiple option banding chains. Now I need to test my deck against a TGT deck, but I really don't want to build one myself. (I know they work well, and win games and tournaments, but it's just not my cup of tea.) Oh, well, locals coming up soon...
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Those of you who understand the significance of "Redemption New Jersey" know what I'm talking about.
If all else fails man, just grab out a copy of Holy Hand Grenade.
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Finally got a Captured Ark. I like it! (Swapped out Unknown Nation, which I'm hoping I won't regret.) I did pretty well at my last local-tied 5-5, lost 5-3, and lost 5-1 to a player who drew only two LSs and buried one.
Two more cards I'm considering. Any advice?
1) False Peace-To grab a useful card, but in place of what?
2) Mayhem-Again, what would it replace?
Thanks!
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You gotta find a way to fit in Mayhem, I'm telling you. Soon as I get one, I'll put it in every deck I have.
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1) False Peace-To grab a useful card, but in place of what?
2) Mayhem-Again, what would it replace?
Both are very good adds. I'd take out Mask of Fear for False Peace, and almost anything out for Mayhem. I'm a huuuuuge fan of Mayhem, I honestly think it is the 3rd best dominant.
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Here's the deck as it now stands:
Cards in deck: 56
Lost Souls: 7
Lost Soul (deck discard)
Lost Soul (female only)
Lost Soul (revealer)
Lost Soul (Site Discard)
Lost Soul (site doubler)
Lost Soul (Wanderer)
Lost Souls (2-line)
Lamb Dominants: 5
Angel of the Lord
Grapes of Wrath
Guardian Of Your Souls
New Jerusalem
Son of God
Grim Reaper Dominants: 4
Burial
Christian Martyr
Destruction of Nehushtan
Mayhem
Fortresses: 2
Rome
Wall of Protection
Multi-Color Sites: 1
Promised Land
Blue Sites: 1
Hormah
Artifacts: 2
Chariot of Fire
Stone Pillar at Bethel
Curses: 2
Captured Ark (Crimson)
Confusion of Mind (Pale Green)
Covenants: 1
Covenant of Noah
Blue Heroes: 8
Asher
Benjamin
Jacob
Leah
Levi
Rebekah
Simeon
Zebulun
Blue Hero Enhancements: 8
Abraham's Servant to Ur
Answer to Prayer
Buying Grain
Jacob Buries the Foreign gods
Journey to Egypt
Numerous as the Stars
Obedience of Noah
Reuben's Torn Clothes
Gray Evil Characters: 6
Emperor Augustus
Emperor Galba
Emperor Nero
Emperor Otho
Lying Spirit
Sabbath Breaker
Multi-Color ECs: 1
The Terrifying Beast (Gray/Orange)
Multi-Color Evil Enhancements: 3
Expelling the Jews
Lurking
Romans Destroy Jerusalem
Gray Evil Enhancements: 5
Balaam's Disobedience
Chains
False Peace
Heavy Taxes
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
I like the added cards, but I think it's too defense-light. It needs another character. I pulled Claudius (gold), and am thinking of adding Emperor Vitellius or another gray EC. Thoughts? (I think I could pull WoP for it, or one of the EEs.)
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Take out:
Wall of Protection (you'll destroy it with RDJ anyway)
Rebekah (having 1 Gen female is enough)
Mayhem (I'm just not really sold on this dom yet)
To add:
Another EC (you are light on these)
Unknown Nation (to get an EC out, or survive an AotL)
The Amelekite's Slave (to get an EC out and create a LS to save)
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Take out:
Rebekah (having 1 Gen female is enough)
Lies, all lies.
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I thought the ECs looked lighter than I expected. (This is a cut-and-paste from RTS.) Somehow it skipped The Terrifying Beast, and it only added up to 55. Does having that restored (above) change advice at all?
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I'm leaning toward taking out WoP and Mayhem and re-adding Unknown Nation and adding TAS (since I just had it used against me and learned to hate it). But I'm going with Tim on keeping Rebekah, especially since Leah can be used early in needed to get out one (or more) of her sons, but at some risk.
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I'm going with Tim on keeping Rebekah
Sure go with the advice of the guy who won Nats with a Genesis offense. I see how you are.
:)
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I have to say I have learned more about deck building in general from this discussion as I keep reworking this deck than I did in my first 8 years of Redemption put together. (OK, I've been out of the loop for about three years, but you know what I mean.) The whole theme and concept workout has really helped. It hasn't made me PLAY any better, but at least I'm losing with better decks. :D
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I have to say I have learned more about deck building in general from this discussion as I keep reworking this deck than I did in my first 8 years of Redemption put together. (OK, I've been out of the loop for about three years, but you know what I mean.) The whole theme and concept workout has really helped. It hasn't made me PLAY any better, but at least I'm losing with better decks. :D
We still love you man. Seriously though, where is the Holy Hand Grenade?