Author Topic: Gardenciples T1-MP (Read 6625 times)

browarod · « **on:** February 16, 2012, 12:15:38 PM »

I've made some revisions to this over the months since last Nats, and I should actually be playing MP again at a tourney this weekend, so I wanted to post the current version for last-minute suggestions/improvements.

Cards to possibly work in: First Fruits(?)

Cards in Deck: 51
Lost Souls: 8
Female-only
3-liner
NT-only
Shuffler
Revealer
Shut Door
1st round
Hopper

Fortresses: 2
TGT
Herod's Temple

Artifacts: 5
4DC
Writ
Gifts
Charms
Captured Ark

Doms: 11
SoG
NJ
GoYS
Grapes
Angel
HT
CM
Burial
FA
DoN
Mayhem

Heroes: 10
Mary, MoJ
Salome
Joanna
Lydia
Susanna
John
Matthew
Bart
Philip
Peter

Good Enhancements: 8
Consider the Lilies
Magnificat
He is Risen
Passover Hymn
Reach
Pentecost
AoCP
MLaMG

Evil Characters: 6
Sabbath Breaker
Uzzah
KoT (gold)
King Manny
Am Slave
Gomer

Evil Enhancements: 1
Haman's Plot

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:29:57 PM »

Those 3 cards are not optional. For them, take out Lydia OR Mary Mag, Magnificat, and Manny OR Damsel. Also, Female Only is a better LS choice than Shame.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:44:16 PM »

I agree with the above. I'd pull out Manny over Damsel, and Mary Mag over Lydia.

browarod · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:52:36 PM »

I just don't find myself wanting to use First Fruits much. More often than not, I end up with only cards I want to keep in my hand, and the discard isn't optional (which makes it very weak to RBD).

I'll try and work Mayhem and HT in, though I consider Mayhem to always be optional as it's so situational.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:14:09 PM »

The times you will use Mayhem always outweigh the times you won't. It can be a free D6, while disrupting your opponent's hand. It can act as soul gen, and to pull out more characters.

lp670sv · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »

Mayhem is easily the best card in the game. Not exaggerating.

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »

I've never had a problem Mayhem could solve that I couldn't also solve with other cards in my deck. I've used it in decks before, and usually it just sits in my hand until the game is over (or I throw it away when I have to discard from my hand). I'm not denying the strategic advantage of a FTM, but all other times it just seems so overrated to me.

@lp - SoG will always be a better card than Mayhem.

lp670sv · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:20:09 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:17:11 PM

I've never had a problem Mayhem could solve that I couldn't also solve with other cards in my deck. I've used it in decks before, and usually it just sits in my hand until the game is over (or I throw it away when I have to discard from my hand). I'm not denying the strategic advantage of a FTM, but all other times it just seems so overrated to me.

@lp - SoG will always be a better card than Mayhem.

You could say that about literally any card. And how are you going to get those cards when you don't have them? Mayhem.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:25:52 PM »

Mayhem is better than SoG. If NJ didn't exist, I'd take Mayhem over SoG any day if I had to choose.

browarod · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM »

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

lp670sv · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:31:34 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

Heroes are also capable of increasing your score, and mayhem gives you chance of drawing Son of God. There is not situationalness about Mayhem, there are pretty much no situations where you would play it that you aren't benefiting from it. Just rescued my 3 LS but don't have SOG/NJ yet? Mayhem. chance to draw them. No enhancements to win this battle? Mayhem. I have only mayhem in my hand my opponent has 6+? Mayhem. I just feel like being a jerk? Mayhem.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:34:02 PM »

Gaining an 11 card advantage is better than winning 1/5 the game. It's winning the WHOLE game in most circumstances.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:38:22 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

Therefore Primary Objective is better than Mayhem.

Red Wing · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:44:25 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:38:22 PM

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM
SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.
Therefore Primary Objective is better than Mayhem.

However, with SoG, you don't have to discard your hand

. Plus you can get another free LS with NJ.

lp670sv · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:46:05 PM »

Quote from: Red Wing on February 16, 2012, 01:44:25 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:38:22 PM
Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM
SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.
Therefore Primary Objective is better than Mayhem.
However, with SoG, you don't have to discard your hand . Plus you can get another free LS with NJ.

And you can get a free whatever card you were looking for with mayhem if we are counting paired cards.

browarod · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:48:01 PM »

@lp - Heroes don't directly increase your score, they require a specific thing to happen (a successful rescue attempt). SoG can be played anytime and doesn't require anything else.

@Kittens - See my point above, just substitute "enhancements" for "Heroes" and "a battle" for "a successful rescue attempt."

@Polarius - FTMs don't happen every game, and that's the only time you're guaranteed such a huge advantage. Also, I've never lost specifically due to having a FTM used against me. In fact, I've won probably 75% of games where I was FTM'd, and 95% of those games I was using a deck that didn't have Mayhem. If you build your deck properly, Mayhem (including FTM) becomes a minor inconvenience at worst.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:50:29 PM »

[Hipster]
I said Mayhem was the best card in the game when TXP first came out and everyone was still swooning over Grapes.
[/Hipster]

I'm not sure if it's better than SOG, but I would use it in every deck without a question. RDT doesn't use it, but I still think he's wrong about it. FTM is a win 90% of the time, you can usually use it from the early to mid game for a 3 or more card advantage, it is fantastic both defensively and offensively even when it won't give you a card advantage (or may even give your opponent a card advantage), and has a really fun dynamic with sam decks. Out of any card in the game, Mayhem has the most utility. Don't forget you get a FTM like 22% of the time, too.

lp670sv · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:55:10 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:48:01 PM

@lp - Heroes don't directly increase your score, they require a specific thing to happen (a successful rescue attempt). SoG can be played anytime and doesn't require anything else.

Yeah and SOG makes you use it...just like you use heroes to win rescue attempts....

SOG can:
Rescue a lost soul.

Mayhem can:
Give you a lost soul to rescue,
Give you the cards you need to rescue that lost soul
Give you a huge advantage over your opponent
Give you cards to block an opponents rescue attempt with
Give you SOG
Take the cards your opponent needs to win away (Got SOG in your hand? To bad. Mayhem)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:55:37 PM »

I've won only one game where my opponent got a FTM off on me, and he made three Big Red level mistakes.

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:56:18 PM »

I just haven't seen the statistics you guys are positing for why Mayhem is so great. I was at Nats last August, my statistics are including those games, so it's not even just a "your playgroup is weird" thing either.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:55:37 PM

I've won only one game where my opponent got a FTM off on me, and he made three Big Red level mistakes.

Build your deck better then? lol

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:57:58 PM »

The other time at Nats that a FTM hit me was at seats 5&6 of Nats. It's not like a better built deck would have helped, it was already a coin flip.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:58:40 PM »

My statistics are just personal experience since TXP came out. Also, last year I exclusively played Garden-Disciples (actually, I played White-Red like 2 days after Boston nats). I also see that this is for MP now, in which case even RDT would use Mayhem.

lp670sv · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:59:38 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:56:18 PM

I just haven't seen the statistics you guys are positing for why Mayhem is so great. I was at Nats last August, my statistics are including those games, so it's not even just a "your playgroup is weird" thing either.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:55:37 PM
I've won only one game where my opponent got a FTM off on me, and he made three Big Red level mistakes.
Build your deck better then? lol

The guy who won nats got 6 FTM I believe. Even if you don't believe in it, it just makes logical sense. On a perfect first turn mayhem you are 11 cards farther through your deck than your opponent is, which makes you 11 cards closer to SOG/NJ and the rest of your cards in general.

browarod · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2012, 02:01:05 PM »

I already added Mayhem in just in case you peeps didn't notice, lol.

What I'm arguing now is the apparent usefulness I see in the card slot that it takes up. I don't need to choose between SoG and Mayhem (I have both), and Mayhem is probably better for the slot than Mary Magdalene (which is what I took out to put Mayhem in). I just still see it as situational and overrated. That doesn't mean I'm above using it, though, it's just my personal opinion on the card overall.

lp670sv · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2012, 02:03:02 PM »

Every card is situational. SOG is situational, you can only play when there is a soul to rescue. However, there are dozens of situations where Mayhem is one of the most, if not the most powerful card in the game.

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Author Topic: Gardenciples T1-MP (Read 6625 times)

browarod

browarod

browarod

browarod

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Rawrlolsauce!

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Rawrlolsauce!

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