Author Topic: Flood Survivors (play test deck)  (Read 11894 times)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2018, 04:55:30 PM »
+2
You're wrong. Everything after the : is part of the "if it is your turn, banish this card" clause.

The only thing you can do outside of your turn is negate protect abilities (which does have some value in certain situations).
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2018, 04:56:43 PM »
0
so everything in an ability after a ":" is part of the same ability?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2018, 04:58:23 PM »
0
I believe they are considered separate abilities, but they all fall under the : in terms of whether they work or not. Aggie would be a better person to explain that than me.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2018, 05:02:09 PM »
0
so everything in an ability after a ":" is part of the same ability?

They are separate abilities but since they are after the ":" they all are conditional on that being met. The only scenario I think this would matter in is that if this weren't a dominant, and thus CBN, if a card that negated draw abilities was out the draw portion would be negated but the rest of the card would work.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2018, 09:22:01 PM »
0
You can play ANB and take another turn after you've rescued a LS, right? I vaguely remember some sort of "your opponent has to be able to take a turn after a successful rescue" thing being made after the last ANB debacle but obviously that wasn't the case with the Eternal Inheritance/Christ's Triumph bidniz.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2018, 09:32:53 PM »
0
You can play ANB and take another turn after you've rescued a LS, right? I vaguely remember some sort of "your opponent has to be able to take a turn after a successful rescue" thing being made after the last ANB debacle but obviously that wasn't the case with the Eternal Inheritance/Christ's Triumph bidniz.

With the current wording of the card spoiler here you can use it to take two turns in a row each with a successful rescue, yes.

Apparently there's a rule that prevents this.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:25:57 PM by Kevinthedude »

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2018, 09:40:51 PM »
0
EI resulted in a failed rescue, because no LS was rescued in battle resolution. We changed that so EI is a successful rescue.

There is a rule that stops you from making 2 successful rescue attempts before each opponent has had a turn.

On the colon, unless the ability before the colon is a look or reveal, everything after the colon is dependent on that ability. Look and Reveal is at least the rest of the sentence, maybe more. Ends of the Earth stinks for defining the colon. (Not that it's the only card - it's just the first one that comes to mind.)

« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:28:51 PM by RedemptionAggie »

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2018, 10:18:02 PM »
0
There is a rule that stops you from making 2 successful rescue attempts before each opponent has had a turn.

What section is that under? Found it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:20:23 PM by Kevinthedude »

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2018, 10:24:57 PM »
0
Actually the rule was there before that you could not make another rescue attempt after making a successful one before your opponent had taken a turn. However, because cards like Eternal Inheritance were considered failed rescues, you could double dip.
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Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2018, 10:30:46 PM »
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With eternal inheritance does the hero have to have access to the lost soul if it's in a site?

And who gets to choose which lost soul is rescued?

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2018, 10:35:38 PM »
0
With eternal inheritance does the hero have to have access to the lost soul if it's in a site?

And who gets to choose which lost soul is rescued?

Eternal Inheritance just lets you pick a soul from any opponent and rescue it (Assuming it's not protected). Site access or lack thereof is irrelevant.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2018, 09:04:27 AM »
0
You're wrong. Everything after the : is part of the "if it is your turn, banish this card" clause.

The only thing you can do outside of your turn is negate protect abilities (which does have some value in certain situations).

A solution to make it more clear that everything after the "banish this card" clause is a part of the : is instead of periods use semi-colons:

"Negate protect abilities.  If it is your turn, banish this card: Shuffle all cards in play, set aside, and hands; each player must draw 8; begin a new turn."
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2018, 10:06:48 AM »
0
You're wrong. Everything after the : is part of the "if it is your turn, banish this card" clause.

The only thing you can do outside of your turn is negate protect abilities (which does have some value in certain situations).

A solution to make it more clear that everything after the "banish this card" clause is a part of the : is instead of periods use semi-colons:

"Negate protect abilities.  If it is your turn, banish this card: Shuffle all cards in play, set aside, and hands; each player must draw 8; begin a new turn."

I like this. Grammatically, it makes sense too as semicolons are used for separate complete sentences that are a part of the same thought. For Redemption, this would connect all of those actions. 

Great suggestion.

Offline Red

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2018, 10:25:55 AM »
0
You can play ANB and take another turn after you've rescued a LS, right? I vaguely remember some sort of "your opponent has to be able to take a turn after a successful rescue" thing being made after the last ANB debacle but obviously that wasn't the case with the Eternal Inheritance/Christ's Triumph bidniz.

With the current wording of the card spoiler here you can use it to take two turns in a row each with a successful rescue, yes.

Apparently there's a rule that prevents this.
This rule came about because of the first ANB for a fun trivia fact.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2018, 12:39:03 PM »
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So for territory class characters with instant abilities like 'look at opponent's hand', can you do these at any time?  Or just when you first put them into play?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2018, 12:44:03 PM »
+1
So for territory class characters with instant abilities like 'look at opponent's hand', can you do these at any time?  Or just when you first put them into play?

When you first put them in territory and when they enter battle.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2018, 01:36:13 PM »
0
EI resulted in a failed rescue, because no LS was rescued in battle resolution. We changed that so EI is a successful rescue.

There is a rule that stops you from making 2 successful rescue attempts before each opponent has had a turn.

On the colon, unless the ability before the colon is a look or reveal, everything after the colon is dependent on that ability. Look and Reveal is at least the rest of the sentence, maybe more. Ends of the Earth stinks for defining the colon. (Not that it's the only card - it's just the first one that comes to mind.)
So if you rescue on your first turn then can you not make a rescue attempt on your next turn at all? Or would any attack just default to a battle challenge?

Offline Red

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2018, 02:07:39 PM »
+2
Shem's wife's special ability is somewhat cumbersome. Could "search" not still be employed where it's smoother?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 04:48:19 PM by Red »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2018, 03:00:34 PM »
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Covenant of the Rainbow’s CBN modifier (CBN if a hero is in Noah’s Ark) is interesting in light of the scripture saying that all of the flood survivors had already exited the ark before God established this covenant. :)
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Offline Isildur

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2018, 01:14:57 AM »
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Japeth's wife's special ability is somewhat cumbersome. Could "search" not still be employed where it's smoother?

I agree (assuming you're talking about Shem's Wife), but apparently search is being phased out entirely in favor of take, regardless of whether it ends up looking/sounding clunky or not.
I'm not sure I'm the biggest fan of search and take abilities becoming the same thing but I can understand why and get behind the decision.

How does the combining of those two abilities work retroactively? Are all anti search cards now also going to be anti take cards?
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2018, 02:27:53 AM »
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Search is not it's own thing. Sometimes we can't state it (exchange) or we don't state it (discard from deck, banish from discard pile, top/underdeck from Reserve, etc.). But the search still happens.

Prior to Fall of Man, we were down to 3 situations where we actually used the word "search" (X is a searchable location, Y is what you search for):
- "Search X for Y (and add it to hand)", which has been replaced with "Take Y from X" (which works because of a different change that allows you to take cards you do not control, not just opponent's cards)
- "Search X for Y and put it in play" or "Search X for Y and play it", which has been replaced with "Play Y from X" (Sample)
- "Search opponent's X for Y and put it in play" (where Y is usually a Lost Soul), which is Shem's Wife. (And it is clunky, IMO.)

Basically, since we can't always state the search, we never state the search.

Offline Isildur

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 02:54:01 AM »
0
Great explanation RedemptionAggie! I'm not sure if you were responding to me or the other posts... but I'd still like to throw it out there again as to what happens to old search abilities and anti search cards? Do we now just have a complicated blob of "play as" in the REG for each old card?

Unless if this was changed in a previous REG update and I just missed the boat on the change then please ignore the old fossil over here ;)
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2018, 03:41:17 AM »
+1
Great explanation RedemptionAggie! I'm not sure if you were responding to me or the other posts... but I'd still like to throw it out there again as to what happens to old search abilities and anti search cards? Do we now just have a complicated blob of "play as" in the REG for each old card?

Unless if this was changed in a previous REG update and I just missed the boat on the change then please ignore the old fossil over here ;)
"Search" is now more of an action as a result of an ability rather than an ability itself. Anytime you "take" a card from a searchable location (so basically anywhere but hand or play) then that is considered a search and would trigger a Music Leader, for example. It's essentially the same as with "exchange." Exchanging to deck is a search whereas exchanging in play is not.

Offline Isildur

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2018, 09:44:42 AM »
+1
Beautiful! Thanks KoalaKing!

Yep haha so I am out of the loop :P
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Offline Red

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Re: Flood Survivors (play test deck)
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2018, 03:35:45 PM »
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Search is not it's own thing. Sometimes we can't state it (exchange) or we don't state it (discard from deck, banish from discard pile, top/underdeck from Reserve, etc.). But the search still happens.

Prior to Fall of Man, we were down to 3 situations where we actually used the word "search" (X is a searchable location, Y is what you search for):
- "Search X for Y (and add it to hand)", which has been replaced with "Take Y from X" (which works because of a different change that allows you to take cards you do not control, not just opponent's cards)
- "Search X for Y and put it in play" or "Search X for Y and play it", which has been replaced with "Play Y from X" (Sample)
- "Search opponent's X for Y and put it in play" (where Y is usually a Lost Soul), which is Shem's Wife. (And it is clunky, IMO.)

Basically, since we can't always state the search, we never state the search.
Can't you change "give it to opponents territory" to the older "put it in play?" Or have I missed "put" becoming a keyword? Are we trying to avoid unstated default language?
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