Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I have found that one battle winning enhancements works just fine for this type of deck. I would take out Zeal and DMM. I have also found Samuel, Oak, King Saul (purple), mustering for war, and Sam's Eddict useful in this type of deck.

No one really plays with HHI. The only one you really have to worry about now adays is CWD and he has 3 chances to stop that.

Why the CBP LS? All your EEs are CBN

I'd use the FBTN LS to get around NT/Female Onlys.

Quote from: Red Wing on January 18, 2012, 07:19:43 PM

I'd use the FBTN LS to get around NT/Female Onlys.

He actually already has Foreign Sword for that.  In this case, with his limited defense, he's better off not using that soul, as its more likely to hurt him than help.

True. Still, he has limited access to very common lost souls. But Foreign Sword and the Wanderer could be enough, especially in Multi.

Fbtn lost soul is a must in Fbtn decks. Its also needed to get around the Punisher and Thorns lost soul.

I think the most important here is to be aware of the trade-offs of having it vs not having it.

The risks of having it:
1. The opponent has a 3-liner out, and you can't exchange for access.  They tap, bury it or shuffle it, and you're now a turn behind.
2. The opponent is running a similar old testament type offense (popular this year), and you're now negating the NT Only and Female only giving your opponent access, also reducing your ability to dominant block it.
3. You're negating your own shuffler, so now you can't use your own SoGNJ on it to get a block when you have 3+ souls out.

The advantages:
1. Your OT heroes can now rescue the NT Only, and Female only.  You also have foreign sword and Hopper to get around this.
2. If the opponent gets both the Punisher and Thorns soul out simultaneously.
3. Negate the opponents exchanger so you can use your own 3/2-liner to block.

The way I see it, you can get exactly the same advantages using other cards.  The only risk you take by leaving it out is that the opponent gets two somewhat uncommon souls out simultaneously, which is only likely in match-up against a defense heavy / turtle deck style.  If a number of the people you play regularly actually play these, then yes, maybe you should include it; however, its random factor can very easily lose you the game against a similar speed deck (there's a reason none of the top nationals decks - that I've seen - from last year had the FBTN soul - apart from Wraith's turtle deck).

As far as I know, based on all the decks I've seen and people I've talked to, none of the best decks last year had the Thorns or the Punisher in them (if someone knows otherwise, feel free to correct me), and I would expect, the meta staying fairly similar in style, if not cards, that it will remain so.  The only turtle deck last year that made a significant impact (Ring Wraiths), had the FBTN soul instead.

All that said, you still have to use your own best judgement, nobody can dictate how someone else plays, merely inform it.

One final thing: here's a link to a very similar deck from last year, that I believe Martin was running quite successfully.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/complete-decks/7th-place-t1-2p-ironman-winning-deck/

Because the deck needs as many outs against hard counters as possible. Thorns and Punisher completely cripple the deck. Fbtn lost soul solves almost every single issue of the offense not making rescues. It does not matter that it also negates your own Wanderer. The Wanderer is only used for access to lost souls you are unable to rescue 99% of the time. If the Fbtn lost soul is out, then I already have that access by default, so I'm not at all worried about it negating my Wanderer.

Hopper again is usually only for access to souls you are unable to rescue, and the only disadvantage while Fbtn lost soul is out is if they have a clear lob (it still plusses you like normal regardless, so that is still a good thing). It also makes your opponent put their own hopper in their own lob (if not already drawn), so its still a pretty even trade-off either way.

As for Thorns, I had it mixed up with the Cannot be Prevented lost soul. And I do know for a fact some top players that do play Cbp lost soul in type 1.

Regarding how you seem to be under the impression no one plays Punisher...as you put it in a previous thread, it is far better to be proactive than reactive. I can't exclude a card that is a clear out to a hard counter that shuts down my deck entirely and also benefits the deck on additional facets. Yes, the disadvantages to running Fbtn lost soul are less defensive options for yourself, but everyone knows defense doesn't win lost souls, so I'm willing to make that sacrifice as long as I can keep plussing myself on the scoreboard. You can and will lose games easily because Punisher/CBP has your offense locked down and you can't top deck a foreign sword or Wanderer lost soul. All are great cards and can easily fit within the theme without making detrimental sacrifices; why not up your odds of having an out and just use them all? Especially important in a card game that doesn't use a sideboard. /rant

I'm pretty sure it was discussed and clarified shortly after Nationals that Fbtn lost soul does, in fact, negate CBP lost soul.