Author Topic: Disciples/Philistines Deck (Read 7241 times)

browarod · « **on:** November 25, 2010, 02:47:19 PM »

I suck at deck-building, don't tear me a new one please, lol. Help fixing this would be most appreciated.

I think I have too much offense and not enough defense.

Total Cards in Deck: 56
Lost Souls: 7
Luke 13:25
Luke 19:10
Luke 16:20-21
Revealer
Shuffler
1st Round
Wanderer

Artifacts: 5
Lampstand
Blue Tassels
Chariot of Fire
The New Covenant
Captured Ark

Dominants: 9
AotL
CM
DoN
Grapes
NJ
SoG
GoYS
FA
Burial

Fortresses: 3
Fishing Boat
Herod's Temple
Philly Outpost

Heroes: 11
Bart
James
Matthew
Philip
Thad
Thomas
Simon
John
James
Peter
Andrew

Hero Enhancements: 9
My Lord and My God
Sons of Thunder
AoCP
Reach
Sent Two by Two
Pentecost
Faith as a Mustard Seed
Testing Solomon's Wisdom
Centurion's Proclamation

Evil Characters: 5
Philly Armor Bearer
Philly Garrison
12-Fingered Giant
Fallen Warrior
Simon the Magician

Evil Enhancements: 7
Philly Chariot and Horses
Land Dispute
Overwhelmed by Phillies
Bringing Fear
Joseph in Prison
Foolish Advice
Wrath of Satan

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2010, 03:15:59 PM »

It is offensive heavy to me. But di needs to be. But i'd do either 8-9 heores and 9 enhancements.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2010, 04:38:08 PM »

Needs 11 disciples. You can get by with 5-6 enhancements.

CJSports · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2010, 05:06:02 PM »

Take out burial and I don't usually use grapes or Fa in my decks but that is my opinion.

crazycars · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2010, 06:30:30 PM »

:police:do banding philistines:saph banded to lahmi banded to ishbenob banded to phili garriston

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2010, 07:55:37 PM »

those days are dead. banding phillies give the offense sooo much inititive and you act like it is that hard to get

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2010, 09:12:44 AM »

I would use something to negate opponents Herod's Temple so your discarding enhancements work.

You also stop your own Kir and Outpost with your Nazzy.

I think i would take out Nazzy for WoP. I dont think you want your opponent banding to your defense.

browarod · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2010, 07:20:43 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on November 25, 2010, 04:38:08 PM

Needs 11 disciples.

I don't see the point. I don't know of any good ECs that have 11 toughness, so 10 is just as good as 11 for Thad (since I don't think you can currently get up to 12).

Master KChief · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2010, 09:26:03 PM »

that still doesnt mean you will have all 10 out at the same time, especially with some buried in the deck or discarded. all 11 ensures you get your fishing boat/thad online as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Red · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2010, 09:36:45 PM »

Quote from: browarod on November 26, 2010, 07:20:43 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on November 25, 2010, 04:38:08 PM
Needs 11 disciples.
I don't see the point. I don't know of any good ECs that have 11 toughness, so 10 is just as good as 11 for Thad (since I don't think you can currently get up to 12).

Merodach-baladan can play carried into exile before you gut inish. You need andrew.

browarod · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:14:49 PM »

So, after a test game, I have more to fear from capture than not having enough Disciples out. Bart and A New Covenant are the only anti-capture this currently has, and that doesn't seem enough.

So, if you could please stop obsessing over how many heroes I have and actually give constructive criticism on something (anything) else, that would be infinitely better.

EDIT: Small update made.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:27:13 PM »

How about Covenant of Palestine?

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:48:55 PM »

exactly what capture are you especially fearful of? you already have more anti-capture than most top-tier decks would run. unholy writ is really the only top capture card used anymore, and don/bart/new covenant alleviate those concerns threefold. why you also dont have captured ark in here is beyond me, and thats another card that deals with it.

if you dont want constructive criticism on how to build a proper disciples deck, then it would be wise to not post decks in deck advise blatantly asking for help fixing it.

browarod · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:56:32 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 26, 2010, 10:48:55 PM

exactly what capture are you especially fearful of? you already have more anti-capture than most top-tier decks would run. unholy writ is really the only top capture card used anymore, and don/bart/new covenant alleviate those concerns threefold. why you also dont have captured ark in here is beyond me, and thats another card that deals with it.

I faced off against a herod defense and Dungeon + Stan's Seat was uber annoying. I hadn't thought about Captured Ark, I may put that in rather than Blue Tassels.

Quote from: Master KChief on November 26, 2010, 10:48:55 PM

if you dont want constructive criticism on how to build a proper disciples deck, then it would be wise to not post decks in deck advise blatantly asking for help fixing it.

I do want help, but hearing the same suggestion 6 times is not constructive. If it'll make you happy, I'll side in Andrew and do some more testing to see if having 1 more disciple out at any given time is really that much better.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:57:27 PM »

Quote from: browarod on November 26, 2010, 10:14:49 PM

So, after a test game, I have more to fear from capture than not having enough Disciples out. Bart and A New Covenant are the only anti-capture this currently has, and that doesn't seem enough.

So, if you could please stop obsessing over how many heroes I have and actually give constructive criticism on something (anything) else, that would be infinitely better.

EDIT: Small update made.

Maybe I am "obsessing" about it because it matters.

browarod · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2010, 11:05:26 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on November 26, 2010, 10:57:27 PM

Maybe I am "obsessing" about it because it matters.

Saying "you need 11 heroes" is not constructive. If you want me to add something you also need to tell me what to take out for it.

EDIT: Updated again. Took out Goliath's Armor for Andrew.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2010, 11:21:39 PM »

I figured it would be pretty obvious what I wanted to add.

browarod · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2010, 11:26:16 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on November 26, 2010, 11:21:39 PM

I figured it would be pretty obvious what I wanted to add.

Read what I said again, lol.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2010, 03:13:08 AM »

Quote from: browarod on November 25, 2010, 02:47:19 PM

I suck at deck-building, don't tear me a new one please, lol. Help fixing this would be most appreciated.

I think I have too much offense and not enough defense.

Total Cards in Deck: 56
Lost Souls: 7
Luke 13:25
Luke 19:10
Luke 16:20-21
Revealer
Shuffler
Female-only
Wanderer

Artifacts: 7
Lampstand
Four-Drachma Coin
Wash Basin
Chariot of Fire
The New Covenant
Darius' Decree
Captured Ark

Dominants: 10
AotL
CM
DoN
Grapes
Mayhem
NJ
SoG
GoYS
FA
Burial

Fortresses: 3
Fishing Boat
Herod's Temple
Philly Outpost

Heroes: 11
Bart
James
Matthew
Philip
Thad
Thomas
Simon
John
James
Peter
Andrew

Hero Enhancements: 7
My Lord and My God
Sons of Thunder
AoC (non-P)
Reach
Passover Hymn
Pentecost
Faith as a Mustard Seed

Evil Characters: 5
Philly Armor Bearer
Philly Garrison
Philly Priest
12-Fingered Giant
Fallen Warrior

Evil Enhancements: 6
Philly Chariot and Horses
Land Dispute
Overwhelmed by Phillies
Bringing Fear
Joseph in Prison
Foolish Advice

Wash Basin is mediocre at best unless your local meta does a LOT of Demon defenses. And especially in this deck, you'll need your art slot for other cards.

I'm going against the grain on Andrew. I never use him in any of my Disciples decks unless I'm running Centurion's Proclamation and the other new Red card. His sole purpose for being in your deck is to just exist.

AoC needs to change to AoCP. Bottom-recurring a negatable Discard-all is WAY less effective in this particular deck than having a one-time CBN Discard-all. If you haven't won in 5 turns you're in trouble, and using AoC rather than AoCP subsidizes the weakness.

You don't have much/anything to fear from curses (except RBD) or placed EE's, and your offense shouldn't have any sort of problems with immunity. About the only thing Passover Hymn is doing is stopping UN and RBD. Drop the hymn and add Nazareth and you still stop UN and have Mayhem and Captured Ark protection as well. Or, if you're really adamant about having a silver bullet for RBD in addition to Captured Ark, keep it and live with the fact that you have an often-dead card.

Philistine Priests isn't really doing anything for you. It's a sneaky way to get around LotS, but probably at the cost of losing the block since you can only use JiP and Foolish Advice (the former will more than likely be Negated and the latter is of limited use with PP's less-than-stellar defense).

Those are five cards out. I can't stress enough how important Blue Tassels is to a Disciples offense, as it's usually the difference between losing horribly and standing a chance against Herods (a pretty common defense). With the remaining four cards, either just leave them out and get an extra turn of speed, or add some more beef to your offense (particularly Sent Two by Two, The Sabbath, and Testing Solomon's Wisdom could be useful).

Master KChief · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2010, 03:32:11 AM »

here are the changes i would personally make:

out:
4 drachma coin: drawing 4 cards is great, but is it worth the dead space in your art pile until you draw into your peter (or may never get to, or perhaps he is discarded). its too situational a card for me, and you already have superior card drawing with fishing boat, pentecost, reach, and matthew.
wash basin: is this supposed to be specific tech against something? i would assume demons/goh, but disciples really have no problem handling demons. wash basin pretty much belongs exclusively in a mill deck.
chariot of fire: with the surplus of heroes you shouldnt need this at all. even further, herods temple will protect your important heroes once its online.
darius' decree: is this also specific tech against something, perhaps the mirror match?
passover hymn: immunity is never a problem with disciples because of the vast number of interrupts available to them.

you may also possibly look into cutting the number of evil doms in your deck because of lampstand. mayhem would probably be the first to go.

as for what to put in, you could add more purple enhancements to strengthen your disciples while at the same time being fuel for herods temple if need be. at second glance tassels might be worth the slot since disciples are a horrible matchup against herods. or actually, you could just add king david and widow, as both of those roll over herods with ease and still have practical uses outside of being herod tech.

you may also want to splash a red enhancement or two since you now have 3 red heroes. davids triumph and centurions proclamation are excellent choices.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2010, 04:27:07 AM »

having worked with you tonight browarod im going to surprise myself and agree with pol and mkc

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2010, 04:46:33 AM »

I'll also agree that DD can go, although you do need CoF. If Thad gets dead before you have HT up, your offense doesn't have nearly enough fuel to get by even a normal-sized defense.

It's also come to my attention that you've got some rules wrong, which may be skewing the way you're building this deck. ITB will never, under any circumstances interrupt Herod's Dungeon. You also cannot AotL a Herod after blocking but before Dungeon is used if the blocker intends to use it right away. Basically, there is no way to stop Herod's Dungeon outside of Negating a Site or Protecting from Capture. It's also concerning to me that you're a tournament host (and presumably a judge) and you've got the wrong idea of how these rulings are.

Master KChief · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2010, 08:38:05 AM »

pol, he has the new covenant as well, i really think cof is overkill.

adotson85 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:04:48 AM »

I agree Blue Tassels must be in here. When Matt told me you were testing out your disciples offense against his herod defenese the first question I asked was if you had blue tassels. I also like to add dragon raid into my disciples offense. Gives site access and is an easy way to discard satan's seat.

browarod · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2010, 01:59:46 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 27, 2010, 04:46:33 AM

It's also concerning to me that you're a tournament host (and presumably a judge) and you've got the wrong idea of how these rulings are.

I wasn't serious about AotL stopping it (plus he had Herod's Temple, too, so it didn't really matter), and my argument about ITB with sites was more about the REG being inconsistent than that I actually thought it would work, lol.

EDIT: Took some of the above suggestions, how does it look now?

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Author Topic: Disciples/Philistines Deck (Read 7241 times)

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