Author Topic: DiscipleSpeed (Read 3248 times)

DaClock · « **on:** January 11, 2011, 04:32:16 PM »

Okay, so I built Resurgence because I wanted to try something new. This deck is another theory deck (hasn't been tested). Even so, I've basically built a speed deck with some new cards and combos. I'm interested to hear about the weak points of this deck, I'm sure its far from tournament-ready.

Cards in deck: 50
Lost Souls: 8
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (N.T. only)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (Shut Door)
   Lost Soul (Wanderer)
   Lost Souls (2-line)

Lamb Dominants: 4
   Angel of the Lord
   Guardian Of Your Souls
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 4
   Burial
   Christian Martyr
   Destruction of Nehushtan
   Mayhem

Fortresses: 2
   Fishing Boat
   The Garden Tomb

Multi-Color Sites: 1
   The Ends of the Earth

Artifacts: 2
   Four-Drachma Coin
   Gifts of the Magi

Green Covenant Cards: 1
   I am Salvation

Silver Heroes: 2
   Cherubim
   The Strong Angel

White Heroes: 3
   Maharai
   Mary the Mother of James
   Salome

Red Heroes: 1
   Peter

Green Heroes: 1
   Hur

Blue Heroes: 3
   Claudia
   Mary Magdalene
   Thomas

Purple Heroes: 3
   Ethiopian Treasurer
   John
   Thaddeus

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 5
   Benedictus (Teal/White)
   Brass Serpent
   Pentecost
   Preaching the Truth
   Spiritual Warfare

Silver Hero Enhancements: 1
   Birth Foretold

White Hero Enhancements: 4
   Blessings
   'He Is Risen'
   Lifthing the Curse
   Words of Encouragement

Blue Hero Enhancements: 2
   Abraham's Descendant
   Abraham's Servant to Ur

Purple Hero Enhancements: 2
   Authority of Christ
   Reach of Desperation

Black Evil Characters: 1
   Malchus

I'm most excited about the things that can be done pre-block now. Birth Foretold to get my Son of God? Yes please. Benedictus to negate pesky sites and lost souls that disciples brought? Yes please. Lifting the Curse and Abraham's Descendant to get rid of anti-garden tomb cards? Yes please. Abraham's Descendant to recur AOCp OUTSIDE OF BATTLE?!?! I <3 disciples. Not to mention that a slot that was previously filled with mostly worthless dragon raid now can help me draw (fishing boat).

Anyway, I'm a little jazzed about the potential here. Please bring me back to reality. What anti-speed things are people using that I missed?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2011, 04:35:07 PM »

Absolutely NEEDS Consider the Lilies to recur Benedictus to crush Golgotha.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2011, 04:54:08 PM »

If you're going to use Fishing Boat and Thad then you might need more than 4 disciples.

Noah · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2011, 05:32:14 PM »

If you have that much speed I don't think you would need birth fortold that much.

CJSports · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2011, 06:17:53 PM »

Pigs LS and Darius Decree Say hello and reck speed at the same time. $:-\$

DaClock · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2011, 07:41:04 PM »

Darius' Decree is an interesting artifact. It prevents me from playing which stops my territory class stuff. It also has the potential to kill a number of my heroes at once if they are set aside. However, neither of those things directly hinder my ability to rescue lost souls. If it were enough of a nuisance I would play DON on it, if you discarded it to nuke my set-aside I would play Brass Serpent and be glad its gone.

Pigs LS presents an interesting problem as well. I like that Birth Foretold searches and doesn't draw, helps me get around it. I also use I Am Salvation to negate lost soul special abilities because they have always been somewhat of a nuisance for speed decks. Typically if I can negate it for a short while I have the ability to do some drawing which would give me the edge I need to win.

CJSports · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2011, 08:02:37 PM »

Problem is if they nuke your drawing to much for too long you don't have any kind of defense to stop them.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:51:23 AM »

This offense packs nowhere near enough punch to break through on turn 3 before your opponent has walked in for all their souls. If any one of many, many popular cards or the cards that search for them are drawn by your opponent even in the first 3 turns you're almost guaranteed to lose.

Isildur · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:57:55 AM »

+ 1 to Pol. I see the same problem with this deck.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:05:25 AM »

post your speed deck Pol. Its really good.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:06:03 AM »

I'm a little confused as to what deck you're talking about, actually.

DaClock · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:55:56 AM »

4 Battle Winners (AOCp, 'He Is Risen', Spiritual Warfare, Preaching the Truth)
2 Pre-Block Ignore Combos (Garden Tomb + Correct Hero, Cheribum + ET + Spiritual Warfare)
2 3-Character Banding Chains (Maharai + Claudia + ET, Garden Tomb Ladies) and respective FBN (Abe's Servant and Blessings)
1.5 FBN Heroes (Strong Angel and John)

What makes you say the offense is underpowered?

adotson85 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:15:13 AM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 12, 2011, 01:55:56 AM

4 Battle Winners (AOCp, 'He Is Risen', Spiritual Warfare, Preaching the Truth)
2 Pre-Block Ignore Combos (Garden Tomb + Correct Hero, Cheribum + ET + Spiritual Warfare)
2 3-Character Banding Chains (Maharai + Claudia + ET, Garden Tomb Ladies) and respective FBN (Abe's Servant and Blessings)
1.5 FBN Heroes (Strong Angel and John)

What makes you say the offense is underpowered?

AoCp- still a great battle winner, but lost some of its power with Caseara Phillipi and Herod's Temple
He Is Risen- Great card, but negateable
Spiritual Warfare- Only targets humans and easily stopped by Golgotha and heretics (wolves in sheeps clothing)
Preaching the Truth- Only works on a single human and is negateable
Garden Tomb- Still a great card, but slowed down by Golgotha
Banding Chains- Herods eat these for dinner
FBtN- Herods eat these for dessert

DaClock · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:48:55 AM »

Even an underpowered or mediocre offense can overwhelm an early game defense. That is the advantage that speed has. The risk obviously is that you get a defense-heavy draw (or worse, don't draw any souls) and you walk in for free lost souls until I lose.

I understand that my offense won't beat a defense with every counter in the world. If thats the kind of deck that people play with now then I'm in trouble.

adotson85 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:57:54 AM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 12, 2011, 02:48:55 AM

Even an underpowered or mediocre offense can overwhelm an early game defense. That is the advantage that speed has. The risk obviously is that you get a defense-heavy draw (or worse, don't draw any souls) and you walk in for free lost souls until I lose.

I understand that my offense won't beat a defense with every counter in the world. If thats the kind of deck that people play with now then I'm in trouble.

Herod defenses are very popular and include almost all the above mentioned counters. Also I have been seeing anti-speed cards being used quite a bit. Cards like anti-draw lost soul and rain becomes dust.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:12:19 AM »

Herod defenses are extremely popular, almost to the point of being ridiculously over-used, and contain multiple overlapping answers to every single one of your offensive options. All other popular defenses contain at least 2 or 3. Defense is WAY more popular now than it was pre-Di. And almost every single deck has Golgotha, which single-handedly limits your offensive options to AoCP and He Is Risen. The former is easily insteadable and the latter easily negatable.

disciple_drew · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2011, 06:41:55 AM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 11, 2011, 04:32:16 PM

Okay, so I built Resurgence because I wanted to try something new. This deck is another theory deck (hasn't been tested). Even so, I've basically built a speed deck with some new cards and combos. I'm interested to hear about the weak points of this deck, I'm sure its far from tournament-ready.

Cards in deck: 50
Lost Souls: 8
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (N.T. only)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (Shut Door)
   Lost Soul (Wanderer)
   Lost Souls (2-line)

Lamb Dominants: 4
   Angel of the Lord
   Guardian Of Your Souls
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 4
   Burial
   Christian Martyr
   Destruction of Nehushtan
   Mayhem

Fortresses: 2
   Fishing Boat
   The Garden Tomb

Multi-Color Sites: 1
   The Ends of the Earth

Artifacts: 2
   Four-Drachma Coin
   Gifts of the Magi

Green Covenant Cards: 1
   I am Salvation

Silver Heroes: 2
   Cherubim
   The Strong Angel

White Heroes: 3
   Maharai
   Mary the Mother of James
   Salome

Red Heroes: 1
   Peter

Green Heroes: 1
   Hur

Blue Heroes: 3
   Claudia
   Mary Magdalene
   Thomas

Purple Heroes: 3
   Ethiopian Treasurer
   John
   Thaddeus

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 5
   Benedictus (Teal/White)
   Brass Serpent
   Pentecost
   Preaching the Truth
   Spiritual Warfare

Silver Hero Enhancements: 1
   Birth Foretold

White Hero Enhancements: 4
   Blessings
   'He Is Risen'
   Lifthing the Curse
   Words of Encouragement

Blue Hero Enhancements: 2
   Abraham's Descendant
   Abraham's Servant to Ur

Purple Hero Enhancements: 2
   Authority of Christ
   Reach of Desperation

Black Evil Characters: 1
   Malchus

I'm most excited about the things that can be done pre-block now. Birth Foretold to get my Son of God? Yes please. Benedictus to negate pesky sites and lost souls that disciples brought? Yes please. Lifting the Curse and Abraham's Descendant to get rid of anti-garden tomb cards? Yes please. Abraham's Descendant to recur AOCp OUTSIDE OF BATTLE?!?! I <3 disciples. Not to mention that a slot that was previously filled with mostly worthless dragon raid now can help me draw (fishing boat).

Anyway, I'm a little jazzed about the potential here. Please bring me back to reality. What anti-speed things are people using that I missed?

I like the deck list however with so much of what's out there, I would still consider improving your lack of defense. Although your offense can be powerful you still don't want to be blind and open yourself up for some stratgies out there.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2011, 08:59:48 PM »

I would listen to Pol and adot. Two outstanding ROOT players that know what thier talking about. and herods do run over FBTN and banding. ugh.

DaClock · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2011, 11:55:56 PM »

I am listening, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to understand where they're coming from.

adotson85 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:08:11 AM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 12, 2011, 11:55:56 PM

I am listening, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to understand where they're coming from.

Game play has changed alot since the release of the disciples set. The strongest offenses I see now seem to be one color, or two at the most. Defense has gotten alot stronger, therefore making it hard for multicolored offenses to break through since they are so spread out. Your main focus now should be the battle phase since preblock abilites took a major hit with the new set. Also, almost no card is a guaranteed block anymore, so you can't count on your doms to always be good for a couple blocks.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:49:23 AM »

at the same time some speed elements are still good to match thier doms with yours and i havent seen much Nazzy.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2011, 03:04:59 AM »

Nazareth or no, every deck needs speed elements. The best decks are the ones that are fast and sturdy. This one's just fast.

Gabe · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2011, 11:29:30 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 13, 2011, 03:04:59 AM

Nazareth or no, every deck needs speed elements. The best decks are the ones that are fast and sturdy. This one's just fast.

The Guardian · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:59:33 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 13, 2011, 03:04:59 AM

Nazareth or no, every deck needs speed elements. The best decks are the ones that are fast and sturdy. This one's just fast.

as well. Even having just 1 or 2 cards that let you draw or a couple ways to thin your deck by searching can be huge.

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Author Topic: DiscipleSpeed (Read 3248 times)