Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I'm trying to come up with a strong defense for type 1, but it seems like the defenses can not keep up with all the new offenses, or simply can not stop all offenses anymore. Then when you do make a strong large defense, as most people know I use in T1, your offense is no longer strong enough to get past these small mono brigade defenses. Kinda discouraged in type 1 right now. Can anyone pick my spirits up? Any strong defensive ideas that can completely shut the opponent down, and if so is there enough room for an offense. I play 63-70 primarily.

A strong demon defense is always good in my books. Just be sure to put a King David in on offense because Kings of Israel hurts it badly.

A strong demon defense is always good in my books. Just be sure to put a King David in on offense because Kings of Israel hurts it badly.

how many times do we have to pick apart your demon defenses until you accept they aren't good....

Red Wing, thanks for the deck idea. I'd do more evil enhs though. Orange is definitely good as a split, or splash, but not mono. Guess my type 1 tourney days are even more narrow this year.

How long did each of those games take?

How long did each of those games take?

I'm sure Jordan agrees with me on this, but time is usually not the biggest restraint. If you play your game right you'll win in the last ten minutes. With my Boston Nationals turtle deck I never timed out. You play your deck right and know that on your turn you put down what you have to quickly and pass to them. People say turtle decks always time out but I say they're playing them wrong. I hardly attack till the end when they are decked out. By then 90% of my RA's are redeemed points. Since you are not attacking, and they are never defending, and eventually they can't really attack either, time is not an issue.

That's when a necessary call out comes into play. If they know they got beat, then they should not be stalling. If they are and have nothing to do and are just looking at their artifact piles, let them for one turn. Then next turn you say nothing changed, stop stalling. I respect players who admit defeat and learn, than players who stall and learn nothing. This still goes back to my original point , if you are hardly attacking, and they are never blocking, which is a large chunk of time, then you have more time left for the last 15 or so minutes. Eventually they are not attacking, or do not attack every turn due to the size/meanness of your defense, which is more time for you. If you play turtle move fast on your turn and do not attack till they are gasping for air.

@Hiatus, the problem is, the rules allow for a very generous amount of time taken each turn, even if doing nothing...if they claim they're thinking? In fact, I see turtle players playing very slow all the time because they are thinking.

Playing slow because you have a lot of important decisions to make is one thing.  Playing slow and claiming to be thinking when you have no heroes to possibly attack with, and no ECs who can possibly block, and no artifacts that can possibly make a difference, etc....that is just stalling.  And I suspect that any judge would rule it that way.

Right now, Demons/something is probably the best way to go on turtle but you must play with household idols in defense heavy. On offense I would use gold. MtM, Lazarus, WS, or even TGT they get through auto-block defenses like no tommorow.

when a turtle is involved the game becomes much more like chess in that you have to think of every single card in your deck and every single card that's probably in their deck, weigh the probabilities of what's in their hand at a given time, and fight for 3 total rescues rather than trying to rescue as quickly as possible.

Which is EXACTLY why having turtle decks in the meta make the game more fun and strategic.  If only the time limits were longer to make that possible.  And if only the offenses weren't so strong this year that they eat defenses for breakfast.

With all the new CBN negate/discards as well as the speed, it's even worse than usual.  I'd really like to see a well-built turtle decklist.

Which is EXACTLY why having turtle decks in the meta make the game more fun and strategic.  If only the time limits were longer to make that possible.  And if only the offenses weren't so strong this year that they eat defenses for breakfast.

I disagree about the "fun" aspect. If I want to play chess, I'll play chess. Some people may enjoy playing Turtle, and a select few may even enjoy playing against it, but I doubt most people appreciate 1/2 their deck being pointless and having only 1/2 the battle phases of a normal game.

If I want to play chess, I'll play chess.

In this case your comparison to chess is really saying that it makes the game strategic.  So now you are being unfair in saying that you don't want Redemption to be chess.  A good example of a game that is un-strategic and totally dependent on what card you draw is Candyland.  I could just as unfairly say, that if I want to play Candyland, then I play Candyland.

But that would be unfair to speed games of Redemption (which most players would admit DO come down to the draw when played between top players).

Some people may enjoy playing Turtle, and a select few may even enjoy playing against it, but I doubt most people appreciate 1/2 their deck being pointless and having only 1/2 the battle phases of a normal game.

Actually I find that there are MORE battle phases when playing a game with a turtle in it.  In a speed vs. speed game, there are almost no battles since neither has defense other than to help draw faster.  And in speed vs. balanced, there are few battles since the speed deck usually attacks in a way that there is no way to stop, and has nothing to stop the balanced deck's attacks.  And both of these games are over before the decks are half finished anyway.

When there is a turtle involved, then the game lasts long enough for the speed or balanced player to deck out.  Therefore there are more battle phases.  And the speed or balanced player definitely has offense, and the turtle definitely has defense, so the battles are actually really fun and interesting.

I find it funny that one of the largest proponents of turtle decks is also one of the most vocal opponents of speed decks. They are the same deck, just reversed.

I'm actually a proponent of variety.  If everyone played a turtle deck, then the game would not be very fun.  But currently almost all top players play speed, therefore I try to push the game toward balanced or turtle decks.