Author Topic: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?  (Read 3579 times)

Offline stefferweffer

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Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« on: February 04, 2010, 02:47:41 PM »
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56 cards

8 Lost Souls
cannot be prevented
lost souls 2 line
NT only
Female only
shuffler
revealer
exchanger
hopper

6 Good Dominants
harvest time
grapes of wrath
guardian of your souls
son of god
new jerusalem
angel of the lord

4 Evil Dominants
burial
martyr
DON
falling away

3 Curses
Captured ark
confusion of mind
unknown nation

4 Artifacts
holy of holies
three nails
chariot of fire
stalks of flax

2 Fortresses
raider's camp
wall of protection

8 Evil Characters
the entrapping pharisee
sabbath breaker
naaman
pharisees
pharisees
pharisees
ahithophel
king pekahiah

8 Evil Enhancements
false peace
snare
deadly snare
demonic snare
syrian victory
night raid
naaman's chariot and horses
just a hireling

8 Heroes
asahel (txp)
men of judah
army of the simeonites
caleb (FOOF)
abishai (kings)
heldai
centurion at capernaum
amasai the raider

5 Hero Enhancements
warrior's spear
a soldier's prayer
the battle is the lords
the might of faith
holy ground

Defense definitely does best when Raider's Camp is out, for self capture "suiciding" ECs.  Hero theory is just band/negate/remove cards from their deck.  Won a local tournament with this deck.

Your thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 04:54:43 PM by stefferweffer »

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 03:05:23 PM »
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Tournament potential? You're using RED! ;)
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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 03:15:16 PM »
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wow good way to make fun of my screen name.also where is counsel of abagail?
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 03:30:35 PM »
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I do like Counsel of Abigail, but I ran out of space.  What would you suggest be removed for that one?

In regards to the offense/defense choice, I'm trying to be different/unconventional.  I enjoy red and I enjoy self capture, probably because I don't see them very much.  Whether or not it can beat Garden Tomb, Speed, etc remains to be seen.

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 03:35:59 PM »
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You're doing Self-Capture wrong. Run Assyrians.
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 03:42:19 PM »
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I'm sure you don't mean "wrong", but rather "a different way".  In my case, I block with a low number EC, capture one of my own heroes, place them in Raider's Camp, let my EC die, and then release my hero to myself.  Opponent never gets initiative to do anything to stop it. 

Can you explain further what I'm doing "wrong", and why Assyrians work better than this?

Thanks.

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 04:01:25 PM »
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Because in your method, you have to lose a character and an enhancment for every block. Assyrians not only have a plethora of captures at their disposal, but they also have two characters which can capture certain heroes with their abilities, not using any enhancements.

The Tartan can capture a Philistine. Ittai and Obed-Edom the Gittite are both Philstines.
King Asnappar can capture an Egyptian or Syrian. Midwives and Pharaoh's daughter are Egyptian.

Since you're not capturing anyone in battle, their ItB card won't stop this. So even if they play an enhancement to beat you, unless it's a negate all, you stop the rescue (via RC). Plus you don't waste an enhancement, and if you want to, you can even try to make your guy survive for the next time.
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 04:32:43 PM »
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Thanks.  I really do appreciate that expanded information, and I was unaware of the Philistine heroes you mentioned.  I do see the strengths of both, and I'm not sure its a "wrong" versus "right" thing.  What you are suggesting depends entirely on having 3 cards in play all at the same time - The EC, Raider's camp, and one of two heroes (although it does work even better with Assyria's Tribute of course).  Assyrians are easier to protect from AOC promo too, which is good.

But without Raider's Camp these ECs have to rely on somehow getting initiative and playing a battle winner.  As far as pale green capture enhancements, I know of three (searching spreadsheet for the words "capture" and "prisoner").  Are there more?  Furthermore, the strategy seems to surround just two ECs.  Isn't self capture only going to work for two or 3 blocks in this case, once those ECs die (since the battle continues)?  Then I also have potentially 4 more heroes I have to put in my deck, of various different colors, for this to work.

With gray low numbers ECs, I get initiative almost every time, and have 2 ECs with CBN special abilities.  Entrapping Pharisee is great against those annoying COTH banding chains.  Playing Red, if opponent AOLs or Grapes Naaman (which they will do), he gets added to my heroes.  There are SIX gray capture enhancements that I know of (only 5 of which are in this deck).  Often I can band two Pharisees together and STILL have initiative, so AOTL is not an instant win for opponent.  False Peace is a great way to search for Raider's Camp if it is at the bottom of my deck.  Sabbath Breaker lets me draw 3 cards (and is low numbers too), and Just a Hireling is just plain awesome.  Stalks of Flax was my most treasured addition to this deck. I can use it to to steal annoying FBTN heroes from opponent, or a "cannot be captured" hero, or a Garden Tomb hero, or an annoying 1/* hero that keeps getting inititiative.

Like I said, it's unconventional, but its fun when it works :)  Hope this helps explain it more.


« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 05:15:29 PM by stefferweffer »

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 04:33:25 PM »
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Am I missing the point of battle prayer?
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 04:39:47 PM »
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Battle prayer is in there to get another negate if needed, but especially The Might of Faith, from discard especially, if stopped by immunity (Red Dragon), KOT, etc.  It could also be used as a way to get Warrior's Spear early (or from discard).  But it is not an "essential" card.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 04:53:44 PM by stefferweffer »

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 04:49:18 PM »
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You're doing this fine. This was my defense with my purple offense, and it went about 27-4. I've never done that well with Assyrians, and I find gray works better. I'd throw in Amalekite's Slaves instead of one of your Pharisees.
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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 04:53:22 PM »
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Battle prayer is in there to get another negate if needed, but especially The Might of Faith, from discard especially, is stopped by immunity (Red Dragon), KOT, etc.  It could also be used as a way to get Warrior's Spear early (or from discard).  But it is not an "essential" card.
OH you mean a SOLDIER'S prayer.

Battle prayer is a 4/3 gold enh. I was wondering.
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 04:54:16 PM »
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LOL, YES - Soldier's Prayer.  Updating right now, sorry! :)

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 05:03:49 PM »
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I like the idea but idk how viable it is with lacking protection against CBN capture.
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 05:17:31 PM »
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I like the idea but idk how viable it is with lacking protection against CBN capture.
Sorry, but can you expand on this?  I'm not sure what you mean.  Do you mean like Dungeon of Malchiah?  Thanks.

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 05:21:28 PM »
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dude, itd work better with syrians... they have plenty of banding and auto inish. plus then u get naaman proteced...

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2010, 05:27:13 PM »
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Dungeon of malachai
Enslaved by egypt
Esau the hunter
any capture played by namaan
any capture played by nerg
etc.

Also HHI/Gcow hurts you BAD. You need at least 1 more art killer.
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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 05:27:36 PM »
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Pale has Stocks, Slave Trade, and Captured by Assyria. It has one character where captures can never be negated (Esau the Hunter), one where it can't be negated if Assyria is in play (King Sargon II) and one where one of the captures (Stocks) can't be negated (Pashur the priest). Currently, any deck with TSA has exactly two obstacles: Namaan, and Holy of Holies. If you have neither of those, or they are taken care of, you're toast. In addition to the two EC's I mentioned, King Tiglath Pileser III can also capture after a successful block.

What Assyrians don't have, as you've mentioned, is anything close to good initiative. Their smallest character is 3/5. But they have the best weapon in the game, 2kH, which can help out a lot. And pale does have King Jehoiakin, Hophni and Phinehas, and Astrologers, who are all 3/3 or less. So strictly Assyrian may not be the way to go, but Pale does have some nice advantages.

Red makes sense with Namaan, but a more effective RC self-capture strategy is Prophets+HT+Side Battles. And along with side battles and pale green comes other fun benefits, like Confusion.

All that said, I think this is definitely a solid deck, and it obviously can do well. What I've said here are merely things to consider, and I hope you don't take them as reflecting poorly on your deck. Nice job on your tournament win!
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 05:52:37 PM »
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Dungeon of malachai
Enslaved by egypt
Esau the hunter
any capture played by namaan
any capture played by nerg
etc.

Also HHI/Gcow hurts you BAD. You need at least 1 more art killer.


Thank you.  HHI is annoying, but not a game breaker, if I can win by numbers/negates/dominants.  Same thing with Golden Calf.  As far as those CBN captures go, unless HHI is also up it will take a lot of captures to take out the whole force, and shuffler can bring them back into my deck anyway.  Esau, and others like him (Nebby, Naaman) are dominant magnets anyway.  But you do make some very good points on what I should watch out for.  Thanks again for explaining.

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 05:54:30 PM »
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Pale has Stocks, Slave Trade, and Captured by Assyria. It has one character where captures can never be negated (Esau the Hunter), one where it can't be negated if Assyria is in play (King Sargon II) and one where one of the captures (Stocks) can't be negated (Pashur the priest). Currently, any deck with TSA has exactly two obstacles: Namaan, and Holy of Holies. If you have neither of those, or they are taken care of, you're toast. In addition to the two EC's I mentioned, King Tiglath Pileser III can also capture after a successful block.

What Assyrians don't have, as you've mentioned, is anything close to good initiative. Their smallest character is 3/5. But they have the best weapon in the game, 2kH, which can help out a lot. And pale does have King Jehoiakin, Hophni and Phinehas, and Astrologers, who are all 3/3 or less. So strictly Assyrian may not be the way to go, but Pale does have some nice advantages.

Red makes sense with Namaan, but a more effective RC self-capture strategy is Prophets+HT+Side Battles. And along with side battles and pale green comes other fun benefits, like Confusion.

All that said, I think this is definitely a solid deck, and it obviously can do well. What I've said here are merely things to consider, and I hope you don't take them as reflecting poorly on your deck. Nice job on your tournament win!

No offense taken at all.  Regarding facing FBTN characters, that is what the Cannot be Prevented LS, Confusion of Mind, and Stalks of Flax are in there for too.  I originally also had Trap of the Devil, but had to cut it.  Thanks again for the very good advice and warnings.

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2010, 09:59:49 AM »
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You're doing Self-Capture wrong. Run Assyrians.
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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2010, 11:56:04 PM »
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i absoloutly love playing red and grey... one slight change i would make is to put in either ira(kings) or adino with his spear from kings so that you can have some fun with negatin all abilities... that way even if they do have enhancements that can kill off ur guys they cant use em cause all abilities are negated... but thats just my take... my usual line up consists of texp asahel, abishi kings, kings ira, kings adino, helez and heldai... that way all my heroes can band and i have two negaters... just a suggestion

Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 04:24:49 PM »
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Thanks for that neat idea, but how does Kings Ira band into that without negating the banding?

The other issue with FBTN is that I usually have Holy of Holies up so that my low number gray guys don't get cremed :)

Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Banding Red/Gray Capture tournament potential?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 04:27:59 PM »
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Ahh, I see it now!  Thanks again.

 


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