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Furthermore the gains from Mayhem outside of plus and negs on drawing are purely speculative. It does not guarantee you anything. It can put a battle winner right back into your opponents hand. You can redraw another garbage hand. In a lot of cases it can put you as far or even further behind than you previously were just as much as it could possibly stabilize your gamestate. It's an extremely risky card, especially in the conditions Underwood outlined which by no means are absolutes. The best and most absolute attribute that can be credited has always come from its insane drawing ability while hopefully at the same time negging your opponent. As previously mentioned, hand clog can be a major detriment towards balanced decks, or decks in general that play a lot of enhancements. Because of this, the best and most absolute aspect of Mayhem is easily lost. There have been some occasions when my Mayhem has been a dead draw in an aggro deck, even without staring down an opponents Naz. It's overall utility is even less in a balanced.

On paper, Falling Away is almost always a guaranteed stop for a turn. Top decks certainly do not have room for GoyS. And not everyone plays a NT offense that will use Lampstand (biggest draw here being from the synergy with Herods Temple). So in reality, across many games, I'm fairly certain a Falling Away will go off many more times than people tend to give it credit for.

Mayhem does give you the chance to redraw another garbage hand, but if your deck is built right, garbage hands shouldn't happen often. That said, they WILL happen, and Mayhem also gives you a chance to come back from that. Buying yourself one turn isn't good enough in a lot of situations.

I've played both, and Falling Away is the consistent choice, more usable for each game, but Mayhem is super clutch in a few games. Most of the time I will go with Mayhem. It comes in handy for soul gen, hand refresh (again, the ONLY viable hand refresh card in the game), disruption, and there's always that extra draw power. Mayhem is even better now with Vain Philosophy out, since it's a way to shuffle your deck without searching. I've discarded my hand and played Mayhem to get my SoG in far too many games.

Also, I don't agree that Falling Away is a guaranteed stop for a turn. At least half the decks in TC used Lampstand, probably more like 3/4.

I have to agree that FA is a better choice than mayhem, mayhem reduces your hand by 2, gives your opponent the EXACT same chance as you as getting a better hand, and relies on the idea that you have a poor hand.

If you are losing cards when you play mayhem, you are playing mayhem wrong.

A staple in Agrro? I don't know what I am missing, but honestly don't understand why it would be? I am not being sarcastic at all, I legitimately want to know what I am missing! Thanks!

A staple in Agrro? I don't know what I am missing, but honestly don't understand why it would be? I am not being sarcastic at all, I legitimately want to know what I am missing! Thanks!

Lay down your hand, play Mayhem, D6.

I'm not even entirely certain why people are trying to compare the two, its like comparing apples to oranges. Mayhem is in a league of its own, while Falling Away exists on the CM and Burial tier. If you have the room, why not just simply use both? I certainly do.

I can agree with this. I pretty much always go SoG/NJ/AotL/Vain Philosophy/Mayhem/Grapes/Falling Away, in order of first to last in.

Quote from: Westy on October 07, 2013, 09:43:24 PM

Mayhem does give you the chance to redraw another garbage hand, but if your deck is built right, garbage hands shouldn't happen often. That said, they WILL happen, and Mayhem also gives you a chance to come back from that.

Emphasis mine. Consistency is always the best formula when building a deck, and Mayhem makes that chance even slimmer for balanced and beyond decks. Aggro: staple. Balanced/defense heavy: usually cut if tight on room.

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Buying yourself one turn isn't good enough in a lot of situations.

Completely disagree with this, I can't count how many times I've heard someone say they would have won if they had one turn more, ROOT is proof positive of this. Many games are won and lost because of a single turn.

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Mayhem is even better now with Vain Philosophy out, since it's a way to shuffle your deck without searching.

A valid point. But I absolutely hate drawing Mayhem with Vain Philosophy together.

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Also, I don't agree that Falling Away is a guaranteed stop for a turn. At least half the decks in TC used Lampstand, probably more like 3/4.

My operative words were almost always. From what I've seen from extensive play in ROOT, hardly any decks outside the occasional DI plays Lampstand. I have surprisingly yet to see my Falling Away a dead draw since I've stuck it back in my decks. It also punishes people that read a VP/Vit/Sorrow and play SoG/Nj early.

If we're also attributing a 50% rate towards any deck using Lampstand, I'm perfectly content with my FA working in higher than half my games. The same ordeal existed back in the day of FA vs GOYS, and yet that never caused anyone to bat an eye towards adding either one.

I intentionally included the chances in there.  It's a matter of playing the odds, and if your deck is built right they should be pretty good.

I agree that Falling Away can totally shift momentum, especially in aggro mirrors. Balanced has those moments less often.