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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Red Warrior on September 10, 2013, 12:58:44 PM

Title: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Warrior on September 10, 2013, 12:58:44 PM

Abimelech (5/3 Brown/Black Canaanite Judge)
"If Gideon is in your discard pile, negate and discard an Artifact or Single Color Site. If you win this battle, you may discard an evil card."

From the first moment we saw Abimelech at Natz 2011, everyone at least noticed his possible usefulness as a hero. With the threat of Nazareth shutting Sam, AutO, WWW, and basically the speed and search of the judges deck, I thought it was about time to finally explore this idea thoroughly. Note: It wont be my goal every game to convert Abimelech, just having the ingredients there against a rogue Nazareth is the important part.

Ahimelek (4/5 Red Canaanite)
"Return an Evil Character to owner's hand. Protect your warrior class Heroes from capture. Cannot be negated if David is in Play."

By adding Ahimelek to the deck, and using the Red David, I've not only gained 2 targets for Bera's self capture, but two heroes to bear Foreign Sword against a Nazareth (one of those being able to even topdeck it). I currently have The Stars in the deck, it gives me the ability to actually attack with a "Sworded" David or Ahimeleck and pull in 1 or 2 judges (through the exchanger angels).

Looking forward to some great advice and discussion as always!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Deck Presently 54 56 Cards - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dominants (7) - Not really sure which doms this deck should use
Son of God
New Jerusalem
Angel of the Lord
Grapes of Wrath
Christian Martyr
Burial
Vain Philosophy

Lost Souls (7) - Not really sure what souls this deck should use
Resurrection
Lost Souls (2-Line)
Revealer
First Round
Female Only
NT Only
*/4

Sites (3)
Canaan
Sodom
Sodom

Fortresses (2)
Raider's Camp
Tower of Thebez

Artifacts (2)
Holy Grail
Household Idols
Unknown Nation

Heroes (12)
Gideon (one for the money)
Gideon (one for the discard pile)
Samson
Ehud
Moses
Woman at the Well
Zaccheus
Samuel
David (Red)
Ahimeleck the Hittite (Red)
The Angel Under The Oak (Silver)
Angel With The Secret Name (Silver)

Good Enhancements (8)
Deborah's Directive
Samuel's Edict
Ambush the City
Ehud's Dagger
Gideon's Call Battle Prayer
The Stars (Red/Gold)
Birth Foretold (Silver)
Wheel Within a Wheel (Green/Silver)

Dual Enhancement (1)
Foreign Sword (Red/Black)

Evil Characters(7)
Lot's Wife
The Woman of Thebez
Shechem
Bera, King of Sodom
Abimelech (Brown/Black)
Amalekite Slave (Brown/Gold)
Foreign Wives (Multi)

Evil Enhancements (7):
Stone of Thebez
Pride of Simon
Babel
Fortify Site
Wickedness of Delilah
Gibeonite Trickery (Black)
Gibeonite Trickery (Brown) Political Savy

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: TheHobbit13 on September 10, 2013, 03:05:10 PM

Politicaly Saavy is something to think about as it can return Bera to your hand.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Gabe on September 10, 2013, 04:13:41 PM

I think with the release of the new rule book it became illegal to have both Gib Tricks in the same deck (under 100 cards). I read somewhere that the wording for uniques was changed from "characters" to "cards".

Deborah works with Shechem and Raider's Camp.

I'm not a big fan of Unknown Nation or TAS right now due to Nazareth (and to a lesser extend HSR). Maybe nobody in your area plays that card though.

The Stars sets up some fun tricks but how reliable is that? I haven't found it to work well for me when I've tried it using only the two Judges angels.

It would be nice to have a way to get RC and Tower in play reliably. The best options I can think of might not be worth it though - Zac or Jezebel and King Ahab. :-\

Political Saavy is pure genius. A couple other gimmicks I like in these brigades are;

Agur plus Samson's Sacrifice on a Judge.
Displease Philistines and Mayhem.
Chariot and Wrath.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Professoralstad on September 10, 2013, 04:20:04 PM

I really like Sisera in any Canaanite defense. Moses is still one of the most popular Heroes in the game, and Sisera will beat him 60% of the time every time...Also, it allows you to get really creative if you like, by adding in Carcasses and Wrath. The last time I used Carcasses in my deck, it almost became like a Burial Shroud that allowed me to attack against a lot of offenses. Without Sisera, your only WC EC is Abimelech, which might not make Carcasses worth it though.

Also, Ehud is too good to not use in any offense with Judges, and Canaan is too good to not use in any deck with Canaanites...especially with Abimelech to take back your EC and Fortify Site to recur the Site.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Master KChief on September 10, 2013, 04:48:45 PM

I've always wondered, why do some people prefer Ehud in a Judges offense?

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Professoralstad on September 10, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on September 10, 2013, 04:48:45 PM

I've always wondered, why do some people prefer Ehud in a Judges offense?

To me, any card that limits your opponent's options is a good add, and the natural benefit that gold Judges have with the angels is nice. His First Strike makes him significantly worse, of course, which is unfortunate, but he's still really good when combo'd with Canaan. I guess I could see why he's not as good in T1 where defenders aren't on the table as commonly, so it might be my T2 bias. But as a person who prefers balanced-to-defensive heavy builds, I can say that Ehud has wrecked me on more than one occasion by taking away the ability for me to present my best block. I'd probably always use him, even in T1, because of his potential.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Master KChief on September 10, 2013, 05:23:53 PM

Fair enough. What synergy does he have with Canaan?

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: TheHobbit13 on September 10, 2013, 05:35:23 PM

Canaan allows you to capture a hero in territory at the cost of giving your opponent a Canaanite. So if they are not playing black you just choose that evil character to block.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Professoralstad on September 10, 2013, 05:51:30 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit on September 10, 2013, 05:35:23 PM

Canaan allows you to capture a hero in territory at the cost of giving your opponent a Canaanite. So if they are not playing black you just choose that evil character to block.

Right. He becomes almost as good as King Amazing that way.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: TheJaylor on September 10, 2013, 05:57:42 PM

Asahel could also be good for this purpose and to connect your red to your warrior-class judges.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Master KChief on September 10, 2013, 06:43:46 PM

If your Ehud defeats your own Gibeonite Delegates, whose Land of Bondage does it go to?

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Gabe on September 10, 2013, 06:57:01 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on September 10, 2013, 06:43:46 PM

If your Ehud defeats your own Gibeonite Delegates, whose Land of Bondage does it go to?

The opponent of the player who activated the ability, so Ehud's controller.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: RTSmaniac on September 10, 2013, 09:37:10 PM

seems solid and very fun

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 11:30:50 AM

Quote from: TheHobbit on September 10, 2013, 03:05:10 PM

Politicaly Saavy is something to think about as it can return Bera to your hand.

Nice! That's a really creative idea, it would be great for Bera or Shechem!

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 10, 2013, 04:20:04 PM

I really like Sisera in any Canaanite defense. Moses is still one of the most popular Heroes in the game, and Sisera will beat him 60% of the time every time...Also, it allows you to get really creative if you like, by adding in Carcasses and Wrath. The last time I used Carcasses in my deck, it almost became like a Burial Shroud that allowed me to attack against a lot of offenses. Without Sisera, your only WC EC is Abimelech, which might not make Carcasses worth it though.

Also, Ehud is too good to not use in any offense with Judges, and Canaan is too good to not use in any deck with Canaanites...especially with Abimelech Ahimelek to take back your EC and Fortify Site to recur the Site.

I used to have Canaan and Ehud in my deck before it got Samuelized (yes, I actually went two whole games before the speed addiction kicked back in). Woman at the Well can even snatch out a beefy EC or Evil King to later be Chosen and/or Daggered. AwtSN makes him beastly... So I'll happily put Ehud back in!

Jordan, I read "Abimelech's" ability about 10 times trying to see how he helps me bring back my EC... then I went "wait I see what he did" lol. Cool idea! I always felt Canaan was too much cost for too little benefit. Killing a Thad outside of battle is like the only thing that I can really think of... Are there any of good reasons to use Canaan? I'm definitely open to the idea!

Quote from: Gabe on September 10, 2013, 04:13:41 PM

I'm not a big fan of Unknown Nation or TAS right now due to Nazareth (and to a lesser extend HSR). Maybe nobody in your area plays that card though.

The premise of this deck is to live without fear of Nazareth, and sadly yes it's used even in Missouri. An early Nazareth could mess up Unknown Nation though for sure! I'll definitely consider dropping it. Amalekite Slave sitting in my territory allows my Moses to attack FBTN. Then defending, I can throw them TAS and negate their heroes with my occupied tower (that works right? :/). I'd thought about adding Pharaohs Cupbearer for the same reason (plus resurrecting Shechem or Lots Wife... Potentially Lots Daughters)

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Josh on September 11, 2013, 12:15:34 PM

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on September 10, 2013, 05:57:42 PM

Asahel could also be good for this purpose and to connect your red to your warrior-class judges.

Asahel's CTB ability does not work the same as Ehud's and Jael's.  Asahel can only target ECs that are owned by your opponent.  Ehud and Jael can target ECs that your opponent controls.

A fun combo is to use Canaan and give your opponent Sisera.  Then attack with Jael and choose Sisera to block.  Sisera makes enhancements CBN, and you have initiative; so play Counsel of Abigail and put Sisera under your own deck, CBN.  Or play Battle Cry and bring in Ahimelek to return Sisera to your own hand.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 01:29:08 PM

At first I was frustrated with the idea of adding more unsupported red to an already scattered offense , but if I get Capturing Canaan into the deck I'll not only have another kill card that can be made CBN, but would work on Jail against Sisera.

I'm glad you brought up Cousel of Abigail though, under decking would be great. Would it be going too far down the slippery slope to switch Zaccheus to King Hiram (purple Canaanite, fortress search)? I could fit in Cousel... which would make me want to add United Army... Which would make me want to add Purple Saul... And that my friends is an example what Cody Cox and I branded "the slippery slope of redemption" way back lol. I better not.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Drrek on September 11, 2013, 01:57:12 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit on September 10, 2013, 05:35:23 PM

Canaan allows you to capture a hero in territory at the cost of giving your opponent a Canaanite. So if they are not playing black you just choose that evil character to block.

For extra fun, use fortify site on canaan and do it all over again.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 02:08:27 PM

And pass on a chance to bring my Foreign Wives or Woman of Thebez back? :o

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Drrek on September 11, 2013, 03:11:40 PM

Quote from: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 02:08:27 PM

And pass on a chance to bring my Foreign Wives or Woman of Thebez back? :o

A free rescue is better than a block usually imo

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 04:07:25 PM

Drrek,
Yeah that is often quite true, and I love the fact that Fortify Site can be flexible enough for both! It will be one of those cards I'll just have to decide how to use based the game and the deck I'm fighting.

Gabe,
I just saw a comment you made elsewhere about the usefulness of Battle Prayer to bring back Samuel's Edict (or my long time favorite, Ambush the City) so I decided to put that in the place of Gideon's Call... this deck really doesn't mind waiting for souls (plus Shechem and TAS could generate me some souls). Also thanks for all the other ideas and combos to consider, I never noticed that Agur's "from hand" portion works without Book!

Jordan,
I've been thinking on the Carcasses idea since you posted that yesterday. I'm afraid it would be hard to get out consistently in this deck as is, but if the defense makes any shift toward WC ECs (i.e. adding Evil Saul) I may put that in. In the last version of my "Red Warrior" type 2 deck, I ran Carcasses/Wrath with Philistines and usually played it in battle on Fallen Warrior so they didn't see it coming (the first time, haha).

Everybody,
Thanks for the advice, keep it coming! Am I okay going without Chariot of Fire and GoYS is that too risky? It's kinda fun to play with so few neutral/"sideline" cards, but I'm open to the idea of adding more artifacts and "accessory" cards.

Title: Re: Ahimelek Abimelech Nazzy-Tech
Post by: Red Wing on September 11, 2013, 04:30:08 PM

Quote from: Red Warrior on September 11, 2013, 04:07:25 PM

Everybody,
Thanks for the advice, keep it coming! Am I okay going without Chariot of Fire and GoYS is that too risky? It's kinda fun to play with so few neutral/"sideline" cards, but I'm open to the idea of adding more artifacts and "accessory" cards.

With the two Judges angels + Wheel and the Resurrection soul you should be fine without Chariots. GoYS isn't really worth a slot anymore especially in a deck with defense. I would try to find room for I am Holy though.