Author Topic: Raider's Camp Slowing you down? (Move to ruling questions?) (Read 4997 times)

Gohanick · « **on:** January 04, 2009, 01:18:24 AM »

Then activate Burial Shroud. You can Still win battle challenges and your opponent wont touch your lost souls.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:18:06 AM »

Issue, if he has lost souls, it is automatically a r.a.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:01:53 AM »

To expound, the result of the Every Man's Sword discussion was that the status of an attack as a BC or RA is determined after the hero(es) complete their SA. At that point, before a blocker is presented (or chosen), the attack is a BC if there is no accessible LS, or a RA if a LS is accessible. The status can also change during the battle.

You cannot initiate a Battle Challenge if you have access to a LS. A hero in battle with access to a LS is defined as a Rescue Attempt.

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:48:56 AM »

Oh, so Burial Shroud didn't just get ten times more useful... haha.

Gohanick · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:17:16 PM »

so this means while you have burial shroud up... you can make rescue attempts while you can't be attacked?
If a battle is not a rescue attempt or battle challenge... what is it?

maybe we should move this to ruling questions

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:22:50 PM »

Quote from: Gohanick on January 04, 2009, 09:17:16 PM

so this means while you have burial shroud up... you can make rescue attempts while you can't be attacked?
If a battle is not a rescue attempt or battle challenge... what is it?

I'm not sure I understand your question. No one has suggested a third option.

Gohanick · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:26:24 PM »

If you have burial shroud active and your opponent has lost souls in their territory, you can still make a battle challenge correct because Burial shroud prevents you from making rescue attempts not battle challenges right?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:36:57 PM »

I see what you are saying. I think the idea was that Rescue Attempt is defined by the situation, therefore you cannot "prevent" it from being one. I would equate it with trying to "prevent" Ehud from being a judge. You can prevent Ehud from making a RA, but you can't prevent him from being something that he is by definition.

galadgawyn · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:45:56 PM »

True. The problem here is the order of things resolving.

You have Burial Shroud up which allows you to make a Battle Challenge so you are allowed to put a hero into battle.

You cannot determine if it is a R.A. or B.C until after the hero's abilities complete.

So you place the hero into battle and complete his abilities.

You then determine that the hero has access to a lost soul so it is a R.A.

You are not allowed to make R.A.'s so now what? That hero is not allowed to be in battle or try a R.A. in the first place. You can return the hero to your territory but his abilities have already completed. So is this a "free" way to use your heroes abilities without penalty?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:50:34 PM »

Are you suggesting that you can't put a hero into battle at all since it could turn into a RA?

Gohanick · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:01:11 PM »

I would say that would be a battle challenge, otherwise we might need to define a new term for this so we don't run into trouble down the road with similar situations.

I don't see how it isn't a battle challenge. If an evil character protected all lost soulsfrom rescue , that would also be like a hero not being able to make a rescue attempt.

Furthermore... what if the hero is blocked? What is it then? What if someone plays destruction on burial shroud in this battle... does it become a rescue attempt then?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:55:48 PM »

Issue BS doesn't protect anything. It prevents heroes who can get lost souls from entering battle.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:58:17 PM »

So, if I understand correctly:

1. Burial Shroud active.
2. I make a BC.
3. Through the course of the battle, a LS becomes available.
4. The BC does not become a RA, because Burial Shroud prevents RA.

I guess I just didn't see "Rescue Attempt" as something that can be prevented, since it is a definition. I thought only SA could be prevented.

Oh well! $:-\$

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:02:04 PM »

Sorry for the double post. RR and I were instaposted.

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 04, 2009, 10:55:48 PM

It prevents heroes who can get lost souls from entering battle.

This can't be true. What if I BC with a no-SA hero and you block with Huge Egyptian. The top card of my draw pile just happens to be the Hopper. Would it be a BC or RA?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:05:46 PM »

A bc, it would go to your LOB.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:11:02 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 04, 2009, 11:05:46 PM

A bc, it would go to your LOB.

Wait, you are saying that if I draw Hopper while my Burial Shroud is active that the Hopper stays in my LOB? I definitely disagree with that.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:15:42 PM »

You said huge E. Huge E doesn't draw. Just like a revealer hit by huge E doesn't reveal. if you bc'd with say servant angel drew hopper it'd remain a BC because R.a. Are prevented.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:27:29 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 04, 2009, 11:15:42 PM

You said huge E. Huge E doesn't draw. Just like a revealer hit by huge E doesn't reveal. if you bc'd with say servant angel drew hopper it'd remain a BC because R.a. Are prevented.

Oh I see.

I chose a bad example. I was still having nightmares from our last game.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:28:30 PM »

XD heheheheeee that deck was SO fun.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2009, 12:33:24 AM »

This needs an official ruling. It is another case where both interpretations seem logical.

1 - BS prevents RAs and therefore a GC can't enter battle if there are LSs available.
2 - BS prevents RAs and therefore even if LSs are available, a GC entering battle can't rescue them.

Either of these seem like they could be true. We need someone official.

mn777saint · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2009, 09:30:23 PM »

I'm not official but IMHO the answer is:
BS active = BS prevents RAs =
(Both sides to the coin...)

a GC can't enter battle even if there are LSs available and therefore even if LSs are available, a GC entering battle can't rescue them because doing so would be a RA... and well... BS prevents RAs...so both answers are correct.

sounds simple to me.

mn777saint

lightningninja · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2009, 09:50:05 PM »

This is how I see it, and one of these needs to be decided on the right one:

1. You can't make a bc with burial shroud if there are ls. Because that's not actually a bc, it's an ra, so you're hero could never enter battle.
2. The (ra/bc) option activates once the heroe's abilites activates and completes, and if there are ls, then it's now a ra and the hero has to return to territory, and no defender can block cause the hero gets returned to territory.
3. The hero can always enter battle and you can battle, because Burial Shroud only stops ras, not battles in general. So all battles, even if there are ls, are bc's, because the hero is prevented from making a rescue attempt.

Personally I think 3 makes the most sense, and that's how I always understood it. How about you?

Gohanick · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2009, 02:39:49 AM »

Yes I agree on 3

so back to the original Strategy... if I go out with a hero while my burial shroud is up and you have a full raiders camp and choose to not block me, the character in raider's camp should be returned?

mn777saint · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2009, 11:46:30 AM »

BS Reads "Holder may Not make a RA or be "Attacked" May be used Twice.
this is a card form the Apostle set...It shoud need no further clarifacation.

even if LSs are available (From your oppenent), "Your" GC can't enter battle because doing so makes a RA its been that way since 05 nationals (I was there). The card clearly says Holder may Not make a RA. Your GC can't enter battle even if there are LSs available, if your the holder of BS.

the Next part of the card Say "Or be Attacked" notice its not your oppenant that can't make a RA Your opponenet can't even Attack you...and any challange to Battle is an attack... so the card clearly states the following

1) Holder may NOT make RA even if LSs are available (Holder may make Battle callange ONLY if theris NO possible outcome of a RA- (yeah like thats ever a possibility... so don't bothertr)
2) Holder may NOT be "Attacked" and any challeng to battle is an act of aggression and considered an attack...your opponent could not even place a GC in the battle field NO matter the reason...BC or RA... holder of BS Would be under attack.

so back to the original Strategy of Raiders Camp:
otherplayer has a full raiders camp and NO possible LS to possibly make it a RA ... your burial shroud is up... yes you can bc ...and if they choose to not block you, the character in raider's camp should be returned...correct.
Thats what I remeber from 05' Nationals...I used those cards, so unless something has changed...
I was told that when my opponent had no LS in play and full raiders camp I could not intentionaly manipulate a BC
to an RA with my BS active ( I tried to use Seeker to BC and that was being manipulative and that was a no no)

hope that helps
mn777saint

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Author Topic: Raider's Camp Slowing you down? (Move to ruling questions?) (Read 4997 times)

mn777saint

mn777saint