Author Topic: REQUEST: What is too hard to stop? What needs more counters? (Read 74089 times)

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #125 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:10:54 PM »

SPOILER!!!!

Bryon · « **Reply #126 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:29:00 PM »

I'd like to see a drop in max per card numbers from 5 to 4 in Type 2. That would leave Type 2 decks exactly twice as "concentrated" as Type 1 decks. Maybe Rob and the playtesters will consider it when the next rulebooks are up for print with the next starter decks (2011?).

For the time being, though, I would not expect a change.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #127 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:29:56 PM »

Please, please introduce new starters soon!

Master KChief · « **Reply #128 on:** January 15, 2010, 09:53:17 PM »

i'd rather have booster packs back over starters anyday.

Shofarblower · « **Reply #129 on:** January 17, 2010, 01:03:50 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 15, 2010, 09:53:17 PM

i'd rather have booster packs back over starters anyday.

Amen to that!

Starters are good, but usually to weak. It seems that too many cards in starters are filler. I would like to see a return to traditional boosters. There are enough ways for newcomers to get the old cards out there now.

FooF tins 1
RoA tins 2
TexP Packs 3
Factory Set 4
Factory Set Delux 5
Online stores 6
Ebay 7
Trade 8
Buying Packs at your local Christian Bookstore 9
Storehouse 10

I like the idea of traditional seek and find collecting.

12tipton3 · « **Reply #130 on:** January 18, 2010, 11:27:12 AM »

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think we need one last dominant. a lamb one. also i would like to see ornage become a dominant stand alone defense. lastly, i would love this set to be a traditional set. i mean BOOSTER PACKS!!!!!!

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #131 on:** January 18, 2010, 01:16:21 PM »

Uh, Orange is a dominant stand alone defense. It just isn't played often.

JSB23 · « **Reply #132 on:** January 19, 2010, 12:50:06 AM »

Still TGT...
Fix the Chamber of Angels screw up so it's in play and can be targeted
Give red an interrupt and discard an EC card, several protected characters and two interrupt the battle and play next cards
and give green an interrupt and discard card

other than that you guys are doin' fine

Master KChief · « **Reply #133 on:** January 19, 2010, 02:54:34 AM »

we need more counters against the ninjas.

egilkinc · « **Reply #134 on:** January 19, 2010, 07:26:55 AM »

hey,
I have been worried a bit worried lately about the high number of cards that allow or require some sort of deck shuffling. This includes search, discard, and shuffle abilities. Now, with Hidden Treasures + Philistine Outpost, I could be shuffling at least every turn. I believe this is making games unnecessarily longer. What if I were to do piles every time I shuffled instead of just rifling? Even in a type 1 game (and even without piles), I run a greater risk of timing out just because of this.
Tied along with this, I'm wondering if the drawing + this searching that have an end result of opening up a very large pool of cards to play with is good for the game. Is that what the hand limit was in response to? I would recommend that to continue countering this, there be fewer draw and search cards and that there be better/easier/more ways to stop these strategies than Rain Becomes Dust. I recognize the value that this drawing and searching brings to the game - more cards = more options = more fun - one aspect of Redemption that is fundamentally better than MTG is the drawing of 3 rather than 1. However, this openness that things like the Devastator deck, Bronze Laver + Gates of Hell, Gifts + Hur, the Genesis theme, and other strategies bring to the game might swing the pendulum too far.
Thanx for the consideration!
L8er,
Gil

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #135 on:** January 19, 2010, 09:13:40 AM »

they should make a territory class enhancement that negates a fortress and all draw abilities.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #136 on:** January 19, 2010, 10:16:00 AM »

Most of the fortresses were made for a reason, and I think few of them are overpowered besides TGT, which can be solved by cards besides fortress-killers. I don't know about you, but it's always annoying to me when my opponent bands to my characters. It's also very annoying when he kills my characters before I block with them. IMO, there are already enough - if not too many - ways to stop fortresses on the evil side: Spreading Mildew, Romans Destroy Jerusalem, King Hazael, Assyria Conquers Israel, Set Fire, A-bom, Battering Ram/Siegeworks, Besieged, and now Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin, and Axe all in the last set. Most of these cards don't even need initiative to be used, especially with High Places now. Good has Samson's Sacrifice, Trumpet Blast, and Burning Censer also. I think those who are complaining about fortresses need to change their decks a little, because there are fortress discarders in every brigade.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #137 on:** January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM »

That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #138 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:15:05 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM

That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen

How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?

STAMP · « **Reply #139 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:20:04 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 19, 2010, 10:16:00 AM

Most of the fortresses were made for a reason, and I think few of them are overpowered besides TGT, which can be solved by cards besides fortress-killers. I don't know about you, but it's always annoying to me when my opponent bands to my characters. It's also very annoying when he kills my characters before I block with them. IMO, there are already enough - if not too many - ways to stop fortresses on the evil side: Spreading Mildew, Romans Destroy Jerusalem, King Hazael, Assyria Conquers Israel, Set Fire, A-bom, Battering Ram/Siegeworks, Besieged, and now Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin, and Axe all in the last set. Most of these cards don't even need initiative to be used, especially with High Places now. Good has Samson's Sacrifice, Trumpet Blast, and Burning Censer also. I think those who are complaining about fortresses need to change their decks a little, because there are fortress discarders in every brigade.

Personally, I like Confusion...

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 19, 2010, 01:15:05 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen
How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?

...played in a side battle created using Hidden Treasures.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #140 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 19, 2010, 01:15:05 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen
How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?

Spreading Mildew (via High Places), Abom (via High Places and a forced draw), Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #141 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:44:10 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 19, 2010, 01:21:57 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 19, 2010, 01:15:05 PM
Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen
How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
Spreading Mildew (via High Places), Abom (via High Places and a forced draw), Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin.

So only 2 that aren't conditional. That doesn't exactly seem to be dissuading everyone and their brother from still playing TGT.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #142 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:49:52 PM »

People just need slower offenses, it'd solve the problem.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #143 on:** January 19, 2010, 02:35:17 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 19, 2010, 01:44:10 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 19, 2010, 01:21:57 PM
Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 19, 2010, 01:15:05 PM
Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 12:22:39 PM
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen
How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
Spreading Mildew (via High Places), Abom (via High Places and a forced draw), Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin.
So only 2 that aren't conditional. That doesn't exactly seem to be dissuading everyone and their brother from still playing TGT.

If TGT is the only fortress that you think needs to be gotten rid of, then fortress discarders are not the answer. The correct response, which Cactus is working on, is to make single-brigade defenses stable and viable.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #144 on:** January 19, 2010, 03:27:13 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 19, 2010, 01:49:52 PM

People just need slower offenses, it'd solve the problem.

or faster offenses. either works. either let them walk in, but you rescue it all first, or don't get a soul and don't let them get one. until the end of course, once you've massacred their offense.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #145 on:** January 19, 2010, 10:22:36 PM »

Want a way to stop preblock ignore? Create a card that lets your evil attack the land of Redemption (plug)!

Ironica · « **Reply #146 on:** January 19, 2010, 11:33:19 PM »

Are people still complaining about TGT?

I think forts do not need any additional destroyers (Other than the set-aside forts).

The main thing that I believe needs help is, like other people have mentioned, having more diversity in a brigade. I was showing one of my playgroup members the deck I made him (exodus offense (thought it would be interesting to have a pure Exodus offense) and crimson defense). While explaining how all the cards work and the combos I put into the deck, he asked me if anyone uses a gold defense (I just showed him Miriam). After thinking awhile, I realize that no one does. It's not because I dislike gold defense so I never put them in any deck. It's because, besides Egyptians (which I had in one of my main decks), gold, IMHO, doesn't have much to offer as a stand alone brigade (wouldn't mind some one proving me wrong). I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now (can't really say orange because to me, they are still too new to have great diversity in the brigade).

God Bless

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #147 on:** January 19, 2010, 11:36:11 PM »

Quote from: Ironica on January 19, 2010, 11:33:19 PM

Are people still complaining about TGT?

I think forts do not need any additional destroyers (Other than the set-aside forts).

The main thing that I believe needs help is, like other people have mentioned, having more diversity in a brigade. I was showing one of my playgroup members the deck I made him (exodus offense (thought it would be interesting to have a pure Exodus offense) and crimson defense). While explaining how all the cards work and the combos I put into the deck, he asked me if anyone uses a gold defense (I just showed him Miriam). After thinking awhile, I realize that no one does. It's not because I dislike gold defense so I never put them in any deck. It's because, besides Egyptians (which I had in one of my main decks), gold, IMHO, doesn't have much to offer as a stand alone brigade (wouldn't mind some one proving me wrong). I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now (can't really say orange because to me, they are still too new to have great diversity in the brigade).

God Bless

Gold is begining to get a theme of hero withdrawing and Herods.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #148 on:** January 19, 2010, 11:45:40 PM »

Counters other than pre block ignore?...hmmm
I would say the game is pretty much balanced as far as power goes. Pre block anything needs a slight counter or more protect your EC's that are not fortresses. Maybe a multicolor site that has to do with civilizations that protect them? Also more ways of gaining access, maybe a set aside for one turn that gives certain types of heroes access, I don't know. Gold needs more on both sides, offense and defense, discarding/opponent drawing, and better battle winners. Evil gold needs better EC"s so it sees more play time in higher tournaments. Judges need a smaller boost as well. As for counters go though, I got off topic with what needed to be made not counters, O.T. needs to be countered. Everything is O.T. with a slight N.T. splash. Hurt O.T. a little and make Apostles/Deacons/Samaritans better. Gates of Hell auto block is too strong, imo and needs to have a balance to that fortress. But at the same time orange is now being played so don't hurt it too much. counter to every color but red. Just kidding but red needs more. Also I think musicians have potential but as of now, they ride the bench. So overall pump up musicians, N.T. red, and every aspect of good and evil gold. Please no more WC d2 play next. Counter to territory discarding as well. Counter to SoG/NJ, maybe a lost soul that protects all lost souls in play from it?...idk just off the top of my head. More cards like Heavy Taxes, discarding cards from deck or hand and winning a battle is the most fun thing ever. More cost cards and diversity in brigades. But even though I named a good bit I love where the game is going and think it is pretty well balanced overall. Great job overall.

Bryon · « **Reply #149 on:** January 20, 2010, 02:33:36 AM »

Quote from: egilkinc on January 19, 2010, 07:26:55 AM

hey,
I have been worried a bit worried lately about the high number of cards that allow or require some sort of deck shuffling. This includes search, discard, and shuffle abilities. Now, with Hidden Treasures + Philistine Outpost, I could be shuffling at least every turn. I believe this is making games unnecessarily longer. What if I were to do piles every time I shuffled instead of just rifling? Even in a type 1 game (and even without piles), I run a greater risk of timing out just because of this.
Tied along with this, I'm wondering if the drawing + this searching that have an end result of opening up a very large pool of cards to play with is good for the game. Is that what the hand limit was in response to? I would recommend that to continue countering this, there be fewer draw and search cards and that there be better/easier/more ways to stop these strategies than Rain Becomes Dust. I recognize the value that this drawing and searching brings to the game - more cards = more options = more fun - one aspect of Redemption that is fundamentally better than MTG is the drawing of 3 rather than 1. However, this openness that things like the Devastator deck, Bronze Laver + Gates of Hell, Gifts + Hur, the Genesis theme, and other strategies bring to the game might swing the pendulum too far.
Thanx for the consideration!
L8er,
Gil

Gil, that was excellent advice. Kurt and I noticed some issues with searching/shuffling time in our last few playtest games. I am going through the list and GREATLY reducing the number of search and shuffle abilities. Search abilities are, for the most part, being replaced by abilities like Susana's. Shuffle abilities are being replaced by "return to top (or bottom) of deck."

So far, we've only kept two search abilities intact. One searches for a certain unique character, and one for a certain fortress. Half the time, those searches won't even happen, if those other cards are drawn first.

I am still paying careful attention to all your careful comments. We want to make this a super great set, and make this game level up to even higher levels of fun and strategy. Keep the comments coming.

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Author Topic: REQUEST: What is too hard to stop? What needs more counters? (Read 74089 times)

12tipton3

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo