Author Topic: REQUEST: What is too hard to stop? What needs more counters? (Read 74050 times)

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #50 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:42:35 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on December 09, 2009, 07:21:05 PM

but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.

But isn't that why Redemption is so great!!! The person who wins Nats this year will be the one who can successfully tech against or get around the most things.

On a unrelated note,

Quote from: Lawfuldog on December 09, 2009, 07:14:46 PM

The game, in my opinion, needs a new type of strategy. We have converts, straight discarding, removing, capturing, etc... Shuffling was introduced more recently, and I love that. We should just expand on varying strategies on how to win the battle. Set-asides make it interesting, you win the battle but they get their characters back, so it's not going to win you a game.

How about re-introducing a withdraw strategy. Granted, it is very old, I also think there could be a lot of creativity to it. Plus, it would give brown something to do since so many people are complaining about its randomness... I mean brown already has the most withdraw cards. Just a thought.

Lawfuldog · « **Reply #51 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:01:55 PM »

I like both the card swapping and the withdrawing ideas. They would make very interesting strategies and would add another cool aspect to the game.

Isildur · « **Reply #52 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:10:02 PM »

Quote

but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.

Some one has never played Magic or any other card game for that matter

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #53 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:33:32 PM »

Quote from: Lawfuldog on December 09, 2009, 08:01:55 PM

I like both the card swapping and the withdrawing ideas. They would make very interesting strategies and would add another cool aspect to the game.

Reveal and card swapping would work. "Reveal the top card of opponent's draw pile. If it is not a dominant, add it to your hand. If it is a lost soul, add it to owner's territory."

Perri · « **Reply #54 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:49:37 PM »

This isn't too terrible, but it kind of goes along with CBN battle winners. I realize there are protect fortresses, but let's say it blows up, and you lose 90% of your ECs, I think an evil chariots of fire or something like that would be interesting.

I guess for the way the subject is worded, getting unlucky and having no EC's needs a counter? Maybe I'm just terrible at drawing..

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #55 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:07:34 PM »

You know what would be a fun battle-winner type? Going off of STAMP's suggestion, there should be enhancements that allow you to swap an opponent's character with one of your characters of opposite alignment, perhaps temporarily. If used on a guy in battle, that would kick the EC out, like conversion does, right? And it would add interest to the game much like Stalks does, because each player would have a different character to play with. It would also be very fun in side battles (which I think there should be more of BTW).

I also think it would be kind of fun to put a bit of a luck factor into the game, huh? I wouldn't mind seeing more stuff like Angry Mob, except something more like, "flip a coin: if heads, capture a guy, if tails, capture three guys," or something kind of like that, you know?

Master KChief · « **Reply #56 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:59:17 PM »

Quote from: Isildur on December 09, 2009, 08:10:02 PM

Quote
but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.
Some one has never played Magic or any other card game for that matter

mtg has a sideboard. theres your tech right there, without having to sacrifice main deck space. brilliant.

...does redemption? no? oh. 'nuff said.

Shofarblower · « **Reply #57 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:16:32 PM »

I have been working on a deck recently that has at least 4 artifact removal enhancements, we have MiE in green, and several others. I think artifact removal is fine, just look through the brigades by ability, not going by title only. There are more cards out there that haven't seen much play that cards like Lampstand bring back IMHO. I feel that if there were cards to shuffle evil fortresses back into decks they should have secondary abilities to shuffle some of the EC's back too, maybe even some of the ones from the discard pile. Harvest Time can be delayed or even discarded with sites and Confusion.

Deck discard is really tough to stop.
Chamber of Angels is a bear, I haven't come up against a Gates deck so I have no experience there. (And no, I don't want to play you if you use one XD ).

Just my

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #58 on:** December 10, 2009, 09:04:21 AM »

Quote from: Shofarblower on December 09, 2009, 11:16:32 PM

Deck discard is really tough to stop.

really? just use Journey to Egypt. for the most part, you'll win. speed also works efficiantly. Deck discard is something I don't want to see go, it's one of the most fun and unused strategy, due to the easy ignorence.

Gabe · « **Reply #59 on:** December 10, 2009, 09:12:22 AM »

I don't think there's anything that's too hard to stop in the present card pool. There are two things I'd like to see knocked down a notch with a few new versatile counters:

1) Dominants - there isn't anything short of Lampstand that makes me think twice about putting 10-11 Dominants in almost every deck.

2) Site lock has been getting great new tools for the past 3 sets (powerful SA Sites and Site stealers). It's about time for the pendulum to swing back the other direction.

acree3 · « **Reply #60 on:** December 10, 2009, 09:20:19 AM »

Site lock out is one of the few things that stops tgt. If you make it less powerful then I want to see some mager anti tgt cards.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #61 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:26:57 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on December 09, 2009, 07:21:05 PM

but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth.

This is something that I talked about a couple years ago I think. The idea is that as the game expands, it creates more flexibility of deck types, and more necessary "counters" to be able to break through them. At some point, it becomes impossible to include all the counters and still have room for a great deck.

When that happens, then people just have to choose which "counters" to include, and hope they don't run into a deck at a tournament that is based on the strategy that they chose to NOT counter. In my opinion, T2 has been like this at top tournaments for the last couple years already, and T1 is getting close to being there now. In a way, it is an expansion of the rock-paper-scissors mechanic that Redemption has built on. Basically the winner at Nats is the player who builds a great "rock" deck, draws better than other great "rock" decks it runs into, and runs into the fewest "paper" decks.

Lurch · « **Reply #62 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:33:46 AM »

I would like to see a card that discards a fortress in play. A dominant would be nice:) but if you are too worried about people loading up their decks with dominants, then it could be an "use once per game" artifact.

Master KChief · « **Reply #63 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:36:41 AM »

this game desperately needs a dominant fortress discarder. fortresses are just as powerful/more powerful than artifacts, yet can be spammed and active as much as desired.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #64 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:21:19 PM »

If you can Dom Evil forts, you need to have a lot more anti-Play First.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #65 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:45:20 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 10, 2009, 01:21:19 PM

If you can Dom Evil forts, you need to have a lot more anti-Play First.

Why not have both in one?

Place this card in your territory to negate and discard any fortress in play. While this card remains, negate any abilities used by the holder that allow a hero to play an enhancement.

Master KChief · « **Reply #66 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:51:39 PM »

blam. i like it.

you've had a lot of useful ideas lately lambo. you should be on their R&D team!

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #67 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:59:12 PM »

I've wanted to be at least a playtester for a long time now.

Master KChief · « **Reply #68 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:08:09 PM »

personally i think playtesters and R&D should be two seperate departments (because they are two seperate duties). but i guess its an all-encompassing term for redemption.

Bryon · « **Reply #69 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:15:45 PM »

That dominant is a very nice card idea.

Another idea is to attack the uberpowered fortresses without making it too easy to discard the less powerful ones.

If you want to attack Garden Tomb, for example, simply make more ways to get ECs out of your deck. Philistine Outpost was designed specifically to deal with Garden Tomb, and there are a few more cards on the current list that will also get ECs out of your deck. They are also useful in the situations where a bad draw (no ECs) = a lost game. Garden Tomb was designed to punish the WAAAAAAAAY too popular "stand-alone ECs are all I use for defense" defense. TGT is a great card, and needs to be able to keep that effect for balance purposes. Where the problems come are with cards like Holy Grail and Women as Snares, which were problematic even before The Garden Tomb came on the scene. The protect forts are designed to protect against those, and I'd hate to make it too easy to get rid of those protect forts. You can expect more characters with the ability to negate those protect forts for a battle phase, though.

If you want to attack Gates of Hell, there are ways to do so without a dominant. You will see at least 3 in the next set.

I shy away from dominants, since many become deck staples and can limit creativity.

Maybe we need to make a fortress that lets you do something every time an opponent plays a dominant. Hmmm...

soul seeker · « **Reply #70 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:18:51 PM »

or you guys can release a set of dominants (60 or more)...that way it is impossible to put them all in...there will be just too many.

Soundman2 · « **Reply #71 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:25:05 PM »

side-battle contours an art/hero to stop side battles

-Jonathan "I wanna fight your EC not my hero" Hanson

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #72 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:27:22 PM »

anti-dom artifact...

"Any player who uses a good dominant may not rescue any souls on their next turn."

just a random idea... doesnt make dominants useless, but makes you think twice about playing one.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #73 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:42:15 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on December 10, 2009, 02:15:45 PM

Maybe we need to make a fortress that lets you do something every time an opponent plays a dominant. Hmmm...

Something like A-bomb would be nice. If opponent plays a dominant, you may discard 1 card from their territory or set-aside area.

Realistically, it would take something that powerful to convince players to back off on the number of dominants that they use in a deck.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #74 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:43:58 PM »

Well. I'm safe. I love the idea though, maybe even further.

"Place this card in a territory. The turn after a dom is played the holder may not draw cards during his draw phase."

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Author Topic: REQUEST: What is too hard to stop? What needs more counters? (Read 74050 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo