Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Since PC, I have not  seen auto/judges much, to be honest. I don't think he's much of an issue anymore. Perhaps it's because I mainly play online and people are still trying out stuff with the new sets, but I really don't know if auto is being abused anymore. There's too many ways to shut out judges now.

Everyone seems to be playing Clay/Crimson these days, since PC hit the scene.  However, for those that read all the new PC card abilities, they saw that teching CWD/DD/Hez Ring would greatly hinder (or possibly shut down) the new decks rolling out.  And any deck that has CWD in it just screams "Use Judges and/or Prophets on offense". 

I'm still playing Judges/Ezekiel/Babylonians/Magicians in ROOT, and it's still winning most of its games.  I use AUTO, but I don't abuse him.  I don't use Angelic Guidance or WWW.

I'm not so sure it was AutO that got abused at Nationals, but more that he just fit so well into the two dominant deck types (BoM and Throne). Even without AutO, I think those two decks are still at the top of the deck tier list... 

Well it seems to me that there are really just 2 basic archetypes for Redemption atm and this creates alot of the problems. Speed and Balanced. When 95% of decks are these it really warps the meta for the best cards that fit these themes which AUTO conveniently fits in many themes and is the best speed/utility card in the game. Basically I think more controlling archetypes have to be prevalent to make things like this less prevalent. Herolite and lockout have been the control decks in the past but they are not as viable, people hate playing them, and we have actively tried to limit the presence of these decks recently. Honestly I think these decks should be encouraged and have better support. I know we don't like non player interactions in the game which results in draw end turn scenarios but we need some form of this to be a top tier deck in order to potentially shift the meta.  That's my opinion though and it's part of why I play type 2. There is more diversity and potential there. I mostly consider type 1 to be a broken format atm. It lost it's fun for me. And sure speed is fun but is boring.

As for AUTO. I do think that banning it would be fine. There is still Angel with a secret name and the angel of the winds for decks that want to search that currently use it. As for drawing. Try other cards. There are more good drawing cards than AUTO and Throne offense. (Cough) 2016 Nats 3rd place (Cough)

John's 2015 t1 deck is still boss honestly

We have definitely seen a lot given to other brigades and themes. Really just about every theme with a few battle winners is viable at the moment since cloud

John's deck is still very good. But it's not used much. Hand control is another under utilized theme that I think could use the help. I think a "deck control" theme could be viable and good if it was ever implemented. (Basically stack decks in your favor and limit how much your opponent can change that via draw, shuffle, search, etc.) Would have to be thematic based and not super splashable though.

I guess just overall I just don't see these "control decks" played much and that let's speed and even balanced decks get away with not having to worry about them. Not only that there isn't as much support for them either. This is mostly in a T1 perspective. T2 I think is more balanced.

I would like to see stuff that for instance could punish players for using more than 1 draw ability in a turn or limited them to 1, cards that punish splashing brigades or limited the # of brigades an opponent could use in battle, something that limited the number of cards a player could draw or something that took effect when multiple characters enter a side of battle. Hand control, deck control, and lockout could all use some help too. All in all there is much potential for things that can be done and I think with continuance of printing cards that creatively deal with meta issues will ultimately be good for the game. I think the game has come a long way though and the fact the we all speak out and talk about the direction we think the game should go is great and has made Redemption one of the best card games out there. It will never be perfect but we're always striving together to make it better and that says alot about the game and those who play it.

Quote from: kariusvega on January 11, 2017, 01:57:00 AM

John's 2015 t1 deck is still boss honestly

We have definitely seen a lot given to other brigades and themes. Really just about every theme with a few battle winners is viable at the moment since cloud

Wait, you mean my Job deck will work now?

Maybe in Type 2, unless of course you have a way to get Dust and Ashes back after it has been Shipwrecked.  (Not sure how that is physically possible, but that is what card games do!  )

idk im just sick of this throne stuff tbh ive never really understood why this game is so draw happy. Type 2 used to be where you could try to run control but its pretty much just draw or go home too.

to be fair I don't think the meta had a chance to catch up fast enough from the new set so you're excused 

I agreed with earlier statements that every brigade/type/theme should have its own type of Auto or a very strong opening/foundational card type hero. Every brigade has its own inherent themes that are fun to explore and maximize and the issue I see with Auto is that he improved Judges so much that it made other themes seem not as viable.

I think counters are great but I think reinforcing each brigade and their sub-themes may be the way to go. 

Quote from: Xonathan on January 18, 2017, 08:15:39 PM

I think counters are great but I think reinforcing each brigade and their sub-themes may be the way to go.

100% agree

And relatively speaking the boost Syrians got from cloud is right along those lines

I agree with these sentiments but at least in regards to AUTO, he fits multiple themes in multiple brigade schemes and is overplayed because of it. Introducing options for other themes won't necessarily change this. I might even just encourage people to find a way to stuff AUTO in to fit their theme. I'm all down for new exciting themes and help for existing themes but I'm not sure that inherently will solve the AUTO problem.

Quote from: kariusvega on January 18, 2017, 10:05:06 PM

Quote from: Xonathan on January 18, 2017, 08:15:39 PM

I think counters are great but I think reinforcing each brigade and their sub-themes may be the way to go.

100% agree

And relatively speaking the boost Syrians got from cloud is right along those lines

I agree with these sentiments but at least in regards to AUTO, he fits multiple themes in multiple brigade schemes and is overplayed because of it. Introducing options for other themes won't necessarily change this. I might even just encourage people to find a way to stuff AUTO in to fit their theme. I'm all down for new exciting themes and help for existing themes but I'm not sure that inherently will solve the AUTO problem.

Like throne? Lol

Just thought of an idea, an artifact like three nails but for angels. Can't use Auto if he can get into battle. Lol

I like that idea, but would people use it? no one uses three nails. Granted, angels are, IMHO, better than demons, and used a lot more than demons. demons have pretty much 3 go to characters who can be thrown into almost any deck (PoTW, Messenger, KoT), while angels have like 5 or six that can be thrown into almost any deck. Maybe other people would use it, but i wouldn't. i just don't think that it is good enough.

that disciples angel

The Green Lantern Angel? 

These guys lol

i'll be honest, i have never seen that card played... 
i have contemplated putting it in several decks, (just on lackey) but it just never made the cut in the end.