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Lost Soul Rankings

Recently Josiah wrote an article about lost soul ranking, but if you have any imput on them feel free to post.


Tier 1 breakdown:

Hopper: Definetley deserves to be here as it is the best lost soul in the game.
Retribution: IMO this card is unproven, you'll see it a lot in type 2 but not as much theoretically in type 1. Since there have been no major tournaments this lost soul should probably not be ranked at all.
Cbp: Definitely deserves to be hero. Almost every deck has some btn option and covenants are few and far between so a no cost counter is always nice.

Tier 2 breakdown:
Wanderer: Definitely a tier one lost soul, was in the top 3 type one decks last year. Should be in every old testament offense, the only deck I would consider not putting it in would be a N.T offense where you have a number of females. Not quite as good as a hopper but functions similarly as it gives you access to a no special ability lost souls and can restrict your opponents  access. In top 3 deck= Tier 1
Resurrection: I feel like this lost soul is a bit high, however grabbing a previously discarded hero can help immensely so I am not appalled its here. It was in the top 3 decks last year for type one so I am not sure if that was just a lets try the new lost soul thing or not. Definitely a type 1 lost soul though.

Tier 3 breakdown:

Thorns:  The qualifier for this tear is that it is in the majority of competitive decks. If we are talking about type 2 then we might be okay as dou and soul manipulation is popular. Type 1 though? Not so much. It definetely wasn't in any of the top three decks and I doubt any deck that topped used it (speak now or forever hold your peace). There were two people who played defense heavy in top so its a possibility but one play suicide swine stampeded. So maybe 1/8; still not a majority.

Three liner (or two liner, doesn't matter if we are talking about type 1): This card was in the top 3 nationals winning decks. I don't have proof that it was in all top 8 decks but I would highly doubt that it wasn't. The ability to have a certain block whenever you want is clutch. Yes it does create an extra souls and is a liability against sog nj but it also punishes an opponent for playing sog nj too early. If this isn't tier 1 I don't know what is.
Site Guard: Probably overrated as well. We don't know how popular Dragon Raid will because there have been no major tournaments so we shouldn't be too quick to jump on the band wagon of a previously "defensive-heavy" only lost soul.
Revealer: Probably in a good place. Used to be tier 1 when it came out. It was in literally every deck. Now it lost its luster when more dynamic lost souls have come out.

Tier 4 and below break down:

Everything in tier 4 and below look great. However there are a few gems. N.T lost soul and female only are definitely tier 1. Again in top 3 decks for sure and probably in all eight. Definetely not "rarely" played or in a "minority of decks". Female is definitely better so maybe N.T goes up to tier two but they are still very good. FBTN probably should be in tier 3 at least because its in every deck with an O.T offense and is a hard counter to hopper.

I suppose your right about dragon raid but I wonder how many will be in circulation.

Just to clear up, our article did keep in mind the future of the game not the past.  The tiers were not intended to say what was played but what will be played moving forward, sorry if that is unclear.


How is retribution is subpar when you consider U&T the best non-Dom card in the game and say every deck should use it.  You also seem to like Vp, Sorrow of Mary and guidance for the look at hand abilities. I think you'll find its outstanding in play.  (I may be wrong though.)

How does the NT only have any value right now?  It stops Judges and OT FBTN.  The rest of the upper level decks are using NT heros.  Son of God still negates it.  The only way I see it being that valuable is if your running NT, woman only, */4, and 3/2-liner to try and limit what SoG/NJ can save.  I think you can get way better value not playing the protect souls.

Just to clear up, our article did keep in mind the future of the game not the past.  The tiers were not intended to say what was played but what will be played moving forward, sorry if that is unclear.


How is retribution is subpar when you consider U&T the best non-Dom card in the game and say every deck should use it.  You also seem to like Vp, Sorrow of Mary and guidance for the look at hand abilities. I think you'll find its outstanding in play.  (I may be wrong though.)

How does the NT only have any value right now?  It stops Judges and OT FBTN.  The rest of the upper level decks are using NT heros.  Son of God still negates it.  The only way I see it being that valuable is if your running NT, woman only, */4, and 3/2-liner to try and limit what SoG/NJ can save.  I think you can get way better value not playing the protect souls.

I wouldn't say retribution is sub-par, but its incredibly overvalued here.  Its the sort of soul I might or might not include in my deck depending on the meta, not an auto-include, and certainly not tier one.

I expect to still see plenty of Judges and the deck variants at top level play at this point.  NT heroes are new and fun, but there will still be people that play the tried and true deck.  And honestly I don't think "the deck" (I still hate that name for it, its so uncreative) is weaker than any NT deck right now.

And yeah, you way way undervalue the liners.

Here's the issues with Retribution.

1. It only hinders your opponent from using those cards, it doesn't stop it altogether.

Do you think I care if I have to discard 1 card from my territory if it wins me the rescue?  I play 12 heroes, surely there's 1 I don't need for this matchup.  But wait! It's more than 1! It's every time you use it!

2. It becomes significantly worse as the game progresses.

Congratulations, you drew 3-5 cards! Some of those are characters you're playing down, so now there's only 2-3 cards I don't know.  I can still make very informed decisions without even activating it.  In fact, if you drew it after I've already looked at your hand once, I don't even need to make the initial discard investment.

3. It's reliant on your opponent's actions.

So maybe I only have crucially vital cards in my territory.  No problem, I just WON'T LOOK AT YOUR HAND.  Sure, I haven't gained the advantage I wanted, but now I suppose I'm playing the game the way it's supposed to be played. It won't lose me the game.

4. Your opponent controls result.

Not only do I have to be the one to trigger the soul, but I also get to determine how it reacts.  This goes back to point 1, but I can discard whatever I want.  I can even discard your Abomination of Desolation. Thanks for that. And again, there's certainly something I won't mind discarding.  Maybe I'll do an Isaiah card and then just cycle it back again with Isaiah.

5. It's still a lost soul.

It by no means protects you from anything, it's just a minor thorn in the side, and I can easily negate it or rescue it and the rest of the game I will still have free reign to your hand.

Those threats you've mentioned almost all point to retribution being a great lost soul. 

For Westy
1. Remeber we are talking about a lost soul ability not a character, not a territory class enhancement, a lost soul.

2. Your forgetting how much protection is being played right now.  Retribution by default has hit Herod's Temple for me on 2 occasion I can think and a throne of David once.

3. It is but the fact that a lost soul in my deck forces my opponent to think about what he will play is good for me.

4. and 5. Even if it's ability never happens it became one more obstacle for my opponent, and it's a lost soul. Remeber I am not comparing these to other cards in the game just lost souls. Remeber that 12 Hero's is not currently running the meta, Balance is and 8-10 heros tends to be the number.

I've been running Retribution in every deck I've built since it came out (except for Abom decks). It can be incredibly devastating in T2 when you have both out and your opponent forgets about it.

Why would you not play it in a bomb?

Because retribution allows the opponent to choose what they discard, and abomb is placed in their territory, so they can choose to discard abomb.

I'm not overly familiar with the Early Church set, so this is largely going to be reflections from last season. If cards have been introduced that would drastically change the impact of any the following souls, please feel free to explain. I'm really curious why Revealer is so low on the list. Last I remember, it was a staple that was played in virtually every competitive deck, since the ability to draw souls or bury dominants is non-trivial. Definite Tier 1, at least as recently as Nats '14. CBP isn't an automatic staple since many defenses can use enhancements that are CBP or CBN to begin with; Tier 1 should be reserved exclusively for universal staples. I'm also not really sure why 3-Line is considered better than 2-Line. Sure, it's technically better than Multiplayer, but who cares about Multiplayer? 2-Line is the better soul in two person categories, and so at the very least they should be on the same tier level, and really, the fact that 2-Line is better really ought to be reflected in the tiers.

It allows you the opportunity to rescue half of it if your half-rescued Liner somehow ends up in your opponent's LoB (via Nebushasban for instance). This was a much bigger deal before the rule change that disallowed Lost Souls to be rescued from your own territory (and honestly, the strong wording I used in my previous post was a product of my still sort of being in that mindset), but I would still play 2-Liners before 3-Liners in 2P categories.

Reveal statisticly gets your opponent to their dom's faster.

That doesn't really matter, because the advantage of burying a dominant far outweighs the two card boost if you don't hit one. Assume for example that your opponent has 20 cards in deck. If you don't hit Son of God, then your opponent is only two cards closer to it. If you do hit it, your opponent is now 20 cards away. Even if you disagree with that interpretation of the math, the fact that you  have a shot at fishing out souls (including Hopper) with it makes it an absolute staple to me.

I believe Retribution LS is still strong, even in an ABOMB deck.Philosopher's protects it from discard. Revealer is still strong in my opinion with all the hand control out there, & VP, not to mention Water Jar and Call & Fishers.Being able to manipulate an opponents hand & deck is nice especially since we're all still racing for SoG/NJ.

I don't even take out the "trash" anymore. I just say "OK Ma I just took out the Retribution lost soul, happy?"