Author Topic: New Hockey Observer...becoming fan? (Read 4232 times)

Redoubter · « **on:** May 03, 2012, 12:03:31 AM »

So, I've never watched hockey before. I should preface this by saying that I am from Baltimore, where we have a lot of hardcore fans but not enough to really support a team (20% of Capitals season ticket holders live in Baltimore zip codes, but we've lost teams that were here). We don't really have the rinks/arenas to support youth leagues, and I've never even heard of one in any of the areas around Baltimore. So, there really was not an opportunity to learn the sport or develop a desire to learn.

That said, I've started to watch this season as it ended and into the playoffs. I have to say that, as far as professional sports go, I expected to be absolutely lost by the complexity of the game. However, I was surprised how easy it was to catch on, just by watching the games. I figured out what leads to penalties, offsides, icing, and so on with relative ease and without anyone explaining it to me. Definite plus, and I got more interested.

As I watched, I definitely enjoyed the constant action, the physicality of the game, the power and athleticism required, and the distinct lack of commercial breaks. I found myself becoming invested in the Capitals*, and am still up as we speak watching an incredible triple overtime game.

...I think that I'm becoming a fan of hockey, as much as I've never thought that to be possible.

*Unlike the Redskins, who will always be hated by Baltimore because of how they were shoved down our throats after our team was stolen, and who fought tooth-and-nail to keep us from a new team, or the Nationals just because Os fans hate that they started turning the corner before our team, Baltimore fans can (and do) root for the Capitals. Can't go with the Flyers or Penguins...we can't stand those cities

browarod · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2012, 11:48:08 AM »

With the marked exception of boxing, wrestling, and the like, I've found hockey to be the most barbaric of modern professional sports. Encouraging players to fight amongst themselves (with a measly "timeout" given to the more severe fights) seems like a terrible policy to me. I went to one hockey game with my roommate last year and I've vowed since then never to even watch it on TV ever again. People cheering and leering at the rink trying to get people to beat each other up is offensive and childish. When more people watch hockey to see the fights (like people watching Nascar for the crashes) than the actual game, that should tell you there's a problem.... [/rant]

Kudos to you, though, for finding something you enjoy.

lp670sv · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2012, 11:54:16 AM »

The problem with people who don't like hockey because of the fighting is that they really don't understand the purpose of it. Fighting in hockey isn't fighting for the sake of fighting, it's a control mechanism. It actually GREATLY cuts down on dirty hits and dangerous plays in the game by providing an actual deterrent to do such things. Penalties really aren't that big of a deal in hockey when the trade off is knocking an opposing teams best player out of the game. If Mr. third line scrapper no one cares about his existance gets ejected from the game, but he removed, say, Sidney Crosby in the process thats a net gain for his team and he doesn't care that he got the night off. If, on the other hand, he attempts to take Sid out and gets his face beaten in for his efforts, well you aren't gonna try that again now are ya? Similarly a two minute penalty is next to nothing for most players. Getting punched in the face is, universally, something you want to avoid. Players are much less likely to make dirty plays when they know their reward is coming at the hands of George Parros left hook.

Red Wing · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2012, 12:29:42 PM »

I agree with lp.

And hockey fights aren't nearly as common as many people think. Sure, they're more popular on large stages like the playoffs and in big rivalries (coughcoughPens Flyerscoughcough), but many hockey games are decently clean and fight-less.
I hear the "Hockey isn't a sport. It's a brawl." way too much. That's plain wrong. Hockey isn't just fighting. The best hockey players aren't usually fighters*. Hockey takes a ton skill. The best players in the NHL (Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, ect.) are all skilled players.

*Gordie Howe would be an exception.

browarod · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:14:44 PM »

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that hockey doesn't take skill or is only a brawl. And I know exactly what the fights within hockey are for. I just question the fundamental purpose of a game where they have to add in controlled brawls in order to prevent more aggressive behavior in other aspects of the game. Other sports seem to manage penalizing bad behavior without resorting to fist fights.

Red Wing · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:20:56 PM »

Quote from: browarod on May 03, 2012, 01:14:44 PM

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that hockey doesn't take skill or is only a brawl. And I know exactly what the fights within hockey are for. I just question the fundamental purpose of a game where they have to add in controlled brawls in order to prevent more aggressive behavior in other aspects of the game. Other sports seem to manage penalizing bad behavior without resorting to fist fights.

Well, each to his own. Fighting has always been an aspect of hockey and that won't change anytime soon.

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:26:27 PM »

Quote from: Red Wing on May 03, 2012, 01:20:56 PM

Quote from: browarod on May 03, 2012, 01:14:44 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that hockey doesn't take skill or is only a brawl. And I know exactly what the fights within hockey are for. I just question the fundamental purpose of a game where they have to add in controlled brawls in order to prevent more aggressive behavior in other aspects of the game. Other sports seem to manage penalizing bad behavior without resorting to fist fights.
Well, each to his own. Fighting has always been an aspect of hockey and that won't change anytime soon.

Which is why I, personally, won't be watching it anytime soon. And, that's why my original post had my opinion clearly established by the "[/rant]" tag after which I congratulated Redoubter on finding something in which he was interested.

lp670sv · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:31:49 PM »

Like what? Football? A game where ever man on the field except the QB is hitting someone on every single play? If an individual player on a team gets 5 recorded hits in one day thats considered good from a physical perspective. Multiply that out by 18 skaters on each team (not all 18 are going to get 5 hits, some wont get any but we'll go with a high estimate for the example) and you have 180 total hits in a 60 minute game, most of which are nothing more than bumps. By contrast the average NFL game contains 120 to 140 plays per game between both teams. On each play there are a minimum of 10 players making contact with each other (if every hit in hockey is violent, than blocks count as hits for the NFL since most NHL hits are barely anything more than bumps) totally 14,000 hits per game JUST FROM THE LINEMAN that doesn't include any actual tackles, gang tackles, incidental contact etc. Couple that with the fact that a hockey fight receives a major penalty (5 miuntes off the ice, no exception) where football the worst penalty that can be assessed against your team is 15 yards and I think hockey does a fine job of penalizing it's players.

On to the fights themselves there were 714 fights in the 2009-2010 NHL season (the most recent that I can find complete fight stats for) in 1230 NHL games. That's a little over one fight every 2 games on average but there were a few multi-fight games that bring the total to 493 of the 1230 games that had fights in them. Thats .4 fights per game.

Oh and lets not forget that other team sports DO have fights ALL THE TIME they just don't have a handy fighting major penalty to keep track of such things. I haven't seen a Ravens-Steelers game in years that hasn't had at 5 scraps get separated. The only real difference is that in hockey the refs wait until it is safe for them to break up the fight before moving in so they don't get inadvertently punched.

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:35:09 PM »

Maybe the game I was at was simply an exceptionally violent one, I don't know. It also felt like neither the players nor the referees seemed interested in breaking the fights up at all swiftly, and at least half of them resulted in no punishment on either side. That is what I, personally, take issue with. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch hockey if it interests you, I'm just stating why I, personally, don't enjoy it.

lp670sv · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »

Breaking up a fight on ice is extremely dangerous so when you combine that with the fact that hockey fights last an average of 20 seconds before someone falls down and no one really ends up getting injured in the process it is safer and wiser to let them get it out of their system.

STAMP · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2012, 01:53:15 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on May 03, 2012, 12:03:31 AM

I was surprised how easy it was to catch on

1. It's from Canada.
2. It's easy so the players can understand.

Redoubter · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2012, 07:05:17 PM »

On the fighting thing, is it just me, or do they really not do any fighting in the playoffs? I have honestly never ever seen a fight watching hockey live, and I have to say it is not what drew me to the sport (nor what it keeping me there). I understand your sentiment on it, but considering I've seen 0 fights in the games I've watched, I don't see the big deal.

Is it that since the games are that much more crucial (not to mention every game it seems is decided in overtime), a 5 minute penalty is just something you can't afford in the playoffs?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2012, 07:11:14 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on May 03, 2012, 07:05:17 PM

Is it that since the games are that much more crucial (not to mention every game it seems is decided in overtime), a 5 minute penalty is just something you can't afford in the playoffs?

Yes. You can't give up Power Plays for that long when you are up against the league's best. They will usually score, or at the very least wear the goalie out from being pelted with shots. Teams often score after the Power Play is over because the goalie is exhausted.

Red Wing · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2012, 08:19:46 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on May 03, 2012, 07:05:17 PM

On the fighting thing, is it just me, or do they really not do any fighting in the playoffs? I have honestly never ever seen a fight watching hockey live, and I have to say it is not what drew me to the sport (nor what it keeping me there). I understand your sentiment on it, but considering I've seen 0 fights in the games I've watched, I don't see the big deal.

Is it that since the games are that much more crucial (not to mention every game it seems is decided in overtime), a 5 minute penalty is just something you can't afford in the playoffs?

Yes and no. YMT is correct, you can't afford to give away power-plays. But many times fights will end up with a 4 on 4 situation. However, in rivalries like Pens vs. Flyers fights can be more numerous. Same with games that have illegal hits (ie, Todd Bertuzzi fought Shea Weber because of a dirty play) often result in fights

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2012, 09:32:30 PM »

There are two reasons to fight:

1. A teammate was hit hard and/or dirty
2. Your team is losing/the game flow is very poor

galadgawyn · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2012, 01:31:28 AM »

My disclaimer:
I've never had cable so I've never really followed much of the sports. I have watched a few games and found it somewhat interesting. I have only been to 1 hockey game in person so I have no idea how typical it is.

It was our local Dayton Bombers team which I think is a minor league team? From beginning to end of the game they spent about 20 seconds playing and 30 seconds fighting and this is not an exaggeration. I found it highly annoying to watch because the game was constantly interrupted. If I wanted to see that much punching, I would have gone to a boxing ring; I thought I was going to see guys play a team sport on ice. I can't see how there was really any point to the fighting in that game but some of the fans seemed to be into it.

lp670sv · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2012, 01:36:57 AM »

That is not a proper hockey game and they were most likely doing it to try and draw media attention being a minor league, and therefore not very interesting, team.

Redoubter · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2012, 08:31:16 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on May 04, 2012, 01:36:57 AM

That is not a proper hockey game and they were most likely doing it to try and draw media attention being a minor league, and therefore not very interesting, team.

You mean kind of like how some less-than-stellar franchises sign on to things like Hard Knocks or sign high-profile players just for the media attention?

Yep, I could buy that happening

All about the Benjamins...

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2012, 08:43:21 PM »

I agree that hockey is not about the fights. They represent such a small proportion of the game, and a declining one at that. I have watched hockey for over 30 years. The game is faster now, with more elite scorers. The influx of Europeans opened the game up to its current level. Penalties are almost a giveaway goal at the most inopportune times.

Fighting in hockey is the same as barrelling into the catcher at home plate when you know you will be out, or throwing a beanball to retaliate a homerun strut, or levelling an unaware wide receiver while "blocking" after an interception, or taking out a bounty on the other team's QB, or elbowing an opponent in the face in the name of World Peace, or stomping on a player lying on the court, or bumping another car at 200mph to get him loose, or anything related to MMA. It's just part of the game.

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Author Topic: New Hockey Observer...becoming fan? (Read 4232 times)

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