Author Topic: and the winner is..... (Read 14034 times)

Red Wing · « **on:** December 10, 2011, 10:06:02 PM »

Robert Griffin III! Baylor's 1st Heisman

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lp670sv · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2011, 10:22:57 PM »

Andrew Luck finishes 2nd for the second year in a row....he has got to be so mad

SomeKittens · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2011, 10:27:58 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 10, 2011, 10:22:57 PM

Andrew Luck finishes 2nd for the second year in a row....he has got to be so mad

Guess he doesn't have....

....much Luck

Red Wing · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2011, 10:40:18 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 10, 2011, 10:22:57 PM

Andrew Luck finishes 2nd for the second year in a row....he has got to be so mad

Still, he'll probably get drafted in the 1st round, maybe even before RG3.

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2011, 10:27:58 PM

Quote from: lp670sv on December 10, 2011, 10:22:57 PM
Andrew Luck finishes 2nd for the second year in a row....he has got to be so mad
Guess he doesn't have....

....much Luck

lol

lp670sv · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2011, 11:46:05 PM »

That's not even a debate. Andrew Luck is the #1 overall pick in next years draft, the Heisman determines the best player in college football (thats debatable) not the most NFL ready. I don't eve expect RGIII to go in the top ten, nothing against him but he played in a spread option system that doesn't translate well to the NFL it'll take a couple years for him to be ready to play at that level, Luck has been in a pro style offense since high school. There's a reason the moto of bad NFL teams all year has been "suck for luck"

Smokey · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2011, 11:53:16 PM »

Winner: Darksouls.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:43:26 AM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 10, 2011, 11:46:05 PM

That's not even a debate. Andrew Luck is the #1 overall pick in next years draft, the Heisman determines the best player in college football (thats debatable) not the most NFL ready. I don't eve expect RGIII to go in the top ten, nothing against him but he played in a spread option system that doesn't translate well to the NFL it'll take a couple years for him to be ready to play at that level, Luck has been in a pro style offense since high school. There's a reason the moto of bad NFL teams all year has been "suck for luck"

Tebow. Newton.

lp670sv · « **Reply #7 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:58:28 AM »

Newton has adjusted well. Tebow is a horrendous passer who keeps getting bailed out by his defense

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #8 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:17:15 AM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 12:58:28 AM

Newton has adjusted well. Tebow is a horrendous passer who keeps getting bailed out by his defense

If you watch the MN game, he clearly has the arm. He's being held back.

lp670sv · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:34:34 AM »

Yeah I can totally see how completing ten passes against one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL equates to being "held back". That was the first game this season he's completed at least half his passes. His accuracy is disgusting. He's not a good quarterback. Good leader, yes, good rusher, yes, good quarterback no. No one is holding him back. The system he is in is the only system he can have any kind of success in. If the switched to even a moderately balanced offense he'd fail spectacularly and I kind of wish they would switch to that style of offense so we could get this horrendous experiment over with already.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:58:53 PM »

He can make enough throws to be competitive. Pro style offenses are bologna. Many good athletes that can throw the ball don't get a chance because of the proprietary opinions of NFL execs/coaches who refuse to adapt their systems to the skill sets of strong athletes. They instead just get average ahtletes who fit their mold. I think it's nice that one of those athletes is finally getting a chance and having success.

lp670sv · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:04:02 PM »

It won't last, the last game was the only one that wasn't directly a result of the defense bailing tebows skill set out, and even in that game they had a pick 6 and the interception that set up the game winning field goal. I agree with you on your point, and if Tebow could hit the broad side of a barn I'd agree with you but I've seen him throw too many balls in to the dirt on out routes to believe he's going to be anything.

I'm also not saying RGIII isn't going to be a good nfl player, he can throw and will adjust but as the #1 overall pick you want a player that's ready to start in the NFL right now and Luck is the only one of the top 3 (unless Barkley comes out which I hope he doesn't) that is ready for that right out of the gate

Red Wing · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:29:12 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 01:04:02 PM

It won't last, the last game was the only one that wasn't directly a result of the defense bailing tebows skill set out, and even in that game they had a pick 6 and the interception that set up the game winning field goal. I agree with you on your point, and if Tebow could hit the broad side of a barn I'd agree with you but I've seen him throw too many balls in to the dirt on out routes to believe he's going to be anything.

I'm also not saying RGIII isn't going to be a good nfl player, he can throw and will adjust but as the #1 overall pick you want a player that's ready to start in the NFL right now and Luck is the only one of the top 3 (unless Barkley comes out which I hope he doesn't) that is ready for that right out of the gate

Totally agree. If you look at some of the best NFL QBs like the Manning bros, Troy Aikman, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Brees, ect., they are all pass first players. It'll be interesting to see if RG3 can do well in the NFL however.

lp670sv · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:51:50 PM »

Even the running QBs in the NFL like Vick still have accuracy, Tebow doesn't and that and his throwing motion are why he won't succeed as a quarterback except as a wildcat/option play guy but as far as being an every down guy I don't see it happening

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:32:21 PM »

LOL at Tebow haters who wish their team could win like the Broncos....

lp670sv · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:33:52 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 11, 2011, 07:32:21 PM

LOL at Tebow haters who wish their team could win like the Broncos....

I wish I had the Broncos defense I will concede that. Any defense allowing less than 20 points a game (since tebow took over) is pretty awesome in my opinion.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:57:52 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 01:51:50 PM

Even the running QBs in the NFL like Vick still have accuracy, Tebow doesn't and that and his throwing motion are why he won't succeed as a quarterback except as a wildcat/option play guy but as far as being an every down guy I don't see it happening

Vick consistantly throws under 55% accuracy. He was at 46% his first season. Tebow threw at 50% his first season and is at 48.7% for his career through 19 G, 10 GS. That's a statistically insignificant difference.

When you factor in INT, Tebow is probably/definately superior.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2011, 08:29:31 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 07:33:52 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 11, 2011, 07:32:21 PM
LOL at Tebow haters who wish their team could win like the Broncos....
I wish I had the Broncos defense I will concede that. Any defense allowing less than 20 points a game (since tebow took over) is pretty awesome in my opinion.

No one questions the Denver defense's dominance lately, but without an offense, they would still lose a little less than 20-0 each game (according to your data). Today they would have lost 10-0 without Tebow's leadership (note that I did not say Tebow's awesome arm).

Frankly, I think Tebow has given the defense a reason to "believe," and thus rise to the occasion. They were giving up a fair share of points when Orton was scoring early in the year. I think they simply have come to the conclusion that if if they can keep the game close, then they will win. That motivates them through the first three quarters when Tebow is doing hardly anything on offense. They keep fighting because they know they just have to keep the game within two touchdowns entering the fourth quarter, and then Tebow will suddenly come to life.

lp670sv · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2011, 08:54:42 PM »

You seem to be assuming that without Tim Tebow, the Denver offense is incapable of scoring a single point despite the fact that they average more offensive points per game with Kyle Orton under center.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:11:32 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 08:54:42 PM

You seem to be assuming that without Tim Tebow, the Denver offense is incapable of scoring a single point despite the fact that they average more offensive points per game with Kyle Orton under center.

This is a really loaded statement.

1. Tebow has twice scored more than 24 points (which was Orton's high). If you want to go ahead and dispute this by breaking down Tebow's direct points vs. Orton's direct points, go for it, but the facts say the Broncos score more with Tebow at Quarterback for whatever reason.
2. This statement assumes scoring more OPPG is in correlation to winning. If your statement is true (I didn't fact check it), your implied reasoning is wrong (seeing as Tebow would have less OPPG but more wins).
3. You are attempting to quantify leadership. It's just unquantifiable. Statistically, Orton is a better passer, sure, but a Quarterback isn't a passer. A Quarterback is a leader on offense. Tebow is a leader like it or not.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:26:57 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 08:54:42 PM

You seem to be assuming that without Tim Tebow, the Denver offense is incapable of scoring a single point despite the fact that they average more offensive points per game with Kyle Orton under center.

...and they were 1-4 with all of Orton's scoring.

Like it or not, the team wins with Tebow at the helm. If you spent less time hatin' on the guy, you would learn to appreciate him as the leader he has proven himself to be (in the pros as much as he was in college).

Do Denver fans really hate the fact that he has an awkward throwing motion (as if Tebow was the first

) or completes a low percentage of passes? Rather, I think that Denver fans appreciate his record and his lack of turnovers. More importantly, I think they love the fact that he rises to the occasion when it matters most.

The bottom line always comes back to his outspoken faith. People want him to fail so that he will stop talking about Jesus. I say, "Preach it, brother!"

lp670sv · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:43:14 PM »

Denver fans appreciate that the guy was a winner in college and loved the guy before they had any reason too because thats the only thing he's good for. You're argument doesn't make sense, the only thing a Quarterback can control is the offense Kyle Orton is a better Quarterback than Tim Tebow, the young players on the Denver defense have done an excellent job and that is why they've won games. He's a fantastic leader, but it's not going to last. He's been getting incredibly lucky, he got the Raiders the week that Palmer came back and had no chemistry with his receivers (he literally came in off the couch so don't try to tell me that's not why he didn't play well considering what he's done since) He got the chargers in the middle of a 7 game losing streak, the defense had as many points as tebow did, the vikings without adrian peterson and the bears without Cutler or Forte. One of my friends put it best. The NFL waters are being parted for Tim Tebow, he is the luckiest man on in the nfl.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:50:24 PM »

So you're beginning to believe, too!

Is it Tebow Time or Divine Intervention? Your argument is that it is not Tebow Time .....

lp670sv · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:55:17 PM »

My argument is that he is getting incredibly lucky and getting the credit for the rest of his team bailing out his horrendous throwing ability

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:56:09 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on December 11, 2011, 09:55:17 PM

My argument is that he is getting incredibly lucky and getting the credit for the rest of his team bailing out his horrendous throwing ability

And I statistically showed you he isn't any different from Vick in the beginning who you called and accurate running quarterback and then you didn't address it.

News:

Author Topic: and the winner is..... (Read 14034 times)