Author Topic: Weapons on Your Opponent's Warriors (Read 5191 times)

SirNobody · « **on:** January 26, 2009, 05:16:30 PM »

Hey,

If I band to my opponent's warrior class character and play a weapon class enhancement on it during battle, can I choose for that weapon to be retained by the character when it returns to my opponent's territory?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The Schaef · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:26:45 PM »

Since the opponent regains control of the character, I would think if anyone gets the choice, it would be him.

It's still an interesting question, even if I take it and flip it on its head.

SirNobody · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:04:15 PM »

Hey,

I would think it would be the opposite, since the choice to retain is made during battle resolution at which time I still control the character in battle.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The Schaef · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:53:56 PM »

But when the battle resolves, the characters revert to their owner's control (step 3: cards not otherwise affected holding to standard game rules). It is upon return to territory that the player decides what he wants to retain.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2009, 08:13:33 PM »

The rulebook (page 35) says this:

If a weapon-class enhancement is played during battle on a character who is a warrior, then, following battle resolution when enhancements in battle are normally discarded, a player may decide to keep the weapon-class enhancement on the surviving warrior.

I highlighted what I think is important, that the decision to retain a weapon comes after Battle Resolution. That would lead me to believe that the opponent would get to choose.

SirNobody · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:14:57 PM »

Hey,

While the character is in battle I control it, when it leaves battle and is in a territory my opponent controls it.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 26, 2009, 08:13:33 PM

If a weapon-class enhancement is played during battle on a character who is a warrior, then, following battle resolution when enhancements in battle are normally discarded, a player may decide to keep the weapon-class enhancement on the surviving warrior.

Are the enhancements discarded when the character is in the Field of Battle or while the Hero is in its owner's territory?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:22:13 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on January 26, 2009, 10:14:57 PM

Are the enhancements discarded when the character is in the Field of Battle or while the Hero is in its owner's territory?

Territory.

Also from the rulebook (page 30):

Your opponent’s Evil Character wins if one of these conditions is met:

• The Evil Character’s strength is greater than or equal to the Hero’s toughness, and the Hero’s strength is less than the Evil Character’s toughness. The Hero is discarded, and the Evil Character withdraws to your opponent’s territory.

• Your opponent’s Evil Character repels ignores the Hero. Each Hero and Evil Character withdraws to his owner’s territory.

• All Heroes were removed from battle. Each surviving Evil Character is returned to his owner’s territory.

All enhancements played during the Battle Phase (except set-aside or weapon-class enhancements, or cards such as Thorn in the Flesh placed on other cards during battle) are discarded to the owner’s discard pile. No Lost Soul is rescued.

SirNobody · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2009, 11:13:10 PM »

Hey,

So are we saying that all enhancements played in battle on characters that survive battle return with the character they are played on to their owners territory momentarily before they are discarded?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2009, 11:39:07 PM »

**previous post deleted (I changed my mind

) **

Quote from: SirNobody on January 26, 2009, 11:13:10 PM

So are we saying that all enhancements played in battle on characters that survive battle return with the character they are played on to their owners territory momentarily before they are discarded?

The characters are returned to territory, but it says that all enhancements are discarded, except the few listed. The rule for what happens to the weapon-class enhancement was quoted earlier.

I would say that the answer to your question is "no." The enhancements seem to go directly from battle to discard pile, unless the owner of the weapon-class enhancement chooses to keep it on his warrior-class character.

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:39:35 AM »

I'm saying it can go either way. It's no more logical to say the character goes back to territory and then you regain control. Neither is there an order of operations that says 1). keep weapons 2). discard other.

TimMierz · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2009, 11:23:21 AM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 11:05:45 AM

p.s. i only go by what sounds fair

We know.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:27:36 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 01:23:47 PM

Quote from: TimMierz on January 27, 2009, 11:23:21 AM
Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 11:05:45 AM
p.s. i only go by what sounds fair

We know.

please, please, dont make me mad i hate to get mad on the message boards

it is only the truth. When you are a new member, watch the rulings instead of trying to make them for every single question.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:30:59 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on January 27, 2009, 11:23:21 AM

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 11:05:45 AM
p.s. i only go by what sounds fair

We know.

XD Epic wyn!

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:34:10 PM »

I suggest add to forum's best posts.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:36:09 PM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 27, 2009, 01:34:10 PM

I suggest add to forum's best posts.

with that cam!

NWJosh · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:55:47 PM »

I would rule that if the person using the character (not the owner) wants to put it on the character and leave it, (not sure what the strategy would be behind this), and the person who owns the character wants to keep it on then it would. It would take both players wanting to leave it on there for it to happen. Once again I can't think of really any times I would want to leave weapons on an opponents character since if I have it its usually in there for my strategy, but I'm sure someone out there has a strange strategy that could make this useful, and if so please share with me I like plays like this.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:24:16 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 01:41:16 PM

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 11:05:45 AM
Quote from: The Schaef on January 26, 2009, 05:26:45 PM
Since the opponent regains control of the character, I would think if anyone gets the choice, it would be him.

It's still an interesting question, even if I take it and flip it on its head.

hm.. good question but i who's evil character/hero is it? your's or his? so i say if he wants to keep the weapon he gets to keep it (only for the rest of the game) and if he doesnt i say he either can discard if he chooses or give it to another of your characters. but if he does choose to keep it i say he can only use the numbers

Austin

does this not sound fair

you know what? It really isn't fair that one person has to lose. Let's rewrite Redemption so that no one ever loses. That's fair.

SirNobody · « **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:05:03 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: NWJosh on January 27, 2009, 01:55:47 PM

Once again I can't think of really any times I would want to leave weapons on an opponents character since if I have it its usually in there for my strategy, but I'm sure someone out there has a strange strategy that could make this useful, and if so please share with me I like plays like this.

One thing that came to mind when I made the original post was putting Glittering Spear on your opponents The Rabshakeh. It would keep your opponent from being able to play Two Thousand Horses on The Rabshakeh (the weapon generally desired on The Rabshakeh) until after The Rabshakeh entered battle at least once (or the player used something like I Am Grace to get rid of it). Obviously that wouldn't be applicable if the opponent was involved in the choice as to if the weapon stays or not.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:24:57 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 01:28:55 PM

ok, ok, but all i ask is for him not to make me mad cause then every one els gets mad at me

Because we are trying to help and you don't listen.

Quote from: the musicain on January 27, 2009, 02:50:37 PM

lol i dont recall any one losing i said who ever has the weapon can do what ever they want with it

I'm gonna come off mean but, just cuz you can't realize it is fair, doesn't make it unfair. We make rulings by the rules here not, i wase think it wase fair cuz he is bettr11!!11

SirNobody · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:27:16 PM »

Hey,

A while back when I was last focusing on weapon class enhancements we decided that if I banded to my opponent's warrior class character that was already holding a weapon, that at the end of battle I could choose to discard that weapon rather than sending it back to my opponent's territory with their character.

It seems like if I'm the one that gets to decide if an old weapon is kept or lost, then I should be the one that decides if a new weapon is kept or lost as well.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

sk · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:30:34 PM »

If that's how it was decided before, your solution for this would match.
Never realized there was such a discussion... lost in the plurge, perhaps?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:10:30 PM »

I'm not sure I understand why we are allowed to circumvent the order listed in the rulebook. In the passages I quoted, the characters are returned to territory first (the bulleted points), then the enhancements are dealt with. A character in territory is controlled by the territory's owner.

In this scenario, the opponent gets his character back in territory, then gets to decide whether to keep the weapon. I don't see any other option from the rulebook.

SirNobody · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:13:55 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 27, 2009, 04:10:30 PM

I'm not sure I understand why we are allowed to circumvent the order listed in the rulebook. In the passages I quoted, the characters are returned to territory first (the bulleted points), then the enhancements are dealt with. A character in territory is controlled by the territory's owner.

I'm not interpreting that section of the rulebook the same way you are. I'm inclined to interpret that section as just explaining where each type of card goes after battle, not the order in which they go to those places (based on the lack of words like "then" or "next" in that section). Rather I think the timing for cards leaving battle comes from the glossary entry on battle resolution which I read as saying that all cards in battle leave battle at the same time (step 3).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:42:24 PM »

I do see it as an order, as would many people who read the rulebook to learn how to play.

As far as the glossary:

3. Resolve end-of-battle special ability based on the conditions established in Steps 1 and 2. All unaffected cards are treated under normal gameplay rules (such as discard, return to territory, Land of Redemption, etc).

That rule talks about special abilities. All unaffected cards (like we are talking about) are "treated under normal gameplay rules" which are clearly laid out in the rulebook.

News:

Author Topic: Weapons on Your Opponent's Warriors (Read 5191 times)

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef