Author Topic: Shuffling EC's in territory and weapons (Read 2804 times)

redemption99 · « **on:** August 14, 2009, 04:54:59 AM »

If you use a card, such as two bears/plague of frogs, and shuffle an EC in territory that has a weapon on him does the weapon get shuffled with him or discarded?

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:15:38 AM »

Quote from: REG > Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > Special Conditions

Weapon-class enhancements are discarded if the warrior-class character holding the weapon is discarded, captured, returned to hand, or returned to draw pile. They stay on a character that is converted or returned to territory.

I don't think that it makes sense for weapons not to follow the holder back to the deck considering that all other placed cards (except Lost Souls) follow the holder, but the rules say it's discarded.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:24:15 AM »

Wouldn't evil cards placed on heroes also be discarded if the hero is returned to draw pile?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14, 2009, 09:46:43 AM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on August 14, 2009, 08:15:38 AM

I don't think that it makes sense for weapons not to follow the holder back to the deck considering that all other placed cards (except Lost Souls) follow the holder...

I agree with Gabe. I don't think this rule makes sense.

Korunks · « **Reply #4 on:** August 14, 2009, 09:49:47 AM »

Quote

Wouldn't evil cards placed on heroes also be discarded if the hero is returned to draw pile?

evil cards are different, since they are usually not owned by the player who has their hero returned, therefore they don't go in the deck.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #5 on:** August 14, 2009, 10:43:48 AM »

It was ruled a placed Repentence goes to Draw pile, so I'd say a weapon should too.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:10:33 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 14, 2009, 10:43:48 AM

It was ruled a placed Repentence goes to Draw pile, so I'd say a weapon should too.

Could you cite that? I believe you, I just want to read the rationale.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:16:07 AM »

• Discard weapon-class enhancements on a character being returned to the draw pile.

That is straight from the REG

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #8 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:18:42 AM »

Quote from: ejberkenpas22 on August 14, 2009, 11:16:07 AM

• Discard weapon-class enhancements on a character being returned to the draw pile.

That is straight from the REG

We've already established that. We are discussing whether that quote needs to be updated given certain recent rulings.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:20:12 AM »

Oh sorry I didn't see that you wanted the rationale...I thought you wanted the rule from the REG

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:21:41 AM »

Quote from: ejberkenpas22 on August 14, 2009, 11:20:12 AM

Oh sorry I didn't see that you wanted the rationale...I thought you wanted the rule from the REG

I was quoting Alex about the Repentence ruling.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:23:36 AM »

I woke up 10 min ago...I'll stop posting...it is all turning into nonsense

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:25:11 AM »

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17266.0

XeroSplash · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM »

It was ruled at Nationals that the weapon gets shuffled back with the character.
Not sure about Repentance or other placed cards.

Eric "Green Prophets ftw" Largent

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:39:37 AM »

Quote from: XeroSplash on August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM

It was ruled at Nationals that the weapon gets shuffled back with the character.

This kind of ruling needs to be communicated to non-Natz players since that contradicts the REG.

Quote from: XeroSplash on August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM

Not sure about Repentance or other placed cards.

Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > How to Play

Placed cards must be activated according to game rules. Cards placed remain where they are placed until targeted by a special ability (directly or indirectly) or by a game rule. Placed cards can be directly targeted by other cards (e.g., Boasting of Wisdom) or indirectly when the underlying card is targeted. When the underlying card is targeted, the placed cards go with the underlying card.

The last line would support what Alex was saying, however my Repentence should not go with my opponent's EC to his draw pile. I realize we have defaults in place, but that REG quote may need to be tweaked eventually.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2009, 12:00:37 PM »

Quote from: XeroSplash on August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM

It was ruled at Nationals that the weapon gets shuffled back with the character.

WOOT!

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2009, 01:41:02 PM »

Quote from: XeroSplash on August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM

It was ruled at Nationals that the weapon gets shuffled back with the character.
Not sure about Repentance or other placed cards.

Eric "Green Prophets ftw" Largent

That's new to me. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I was at Nationals and wasn't aware of the change, so even some of us that were there could use an official post about these changes.

Another change that I found out about at Nationals is that a Curse or Covenant in your hand can be used as an Enhancement to satisfy a cost. For example you can discard Capture Ark for King Zimri or Covenant with Noah for Stone Pillar at Bethel.

STAMP · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2009, 01:43:40 PM »

Quote from: XeroSplash on August 14, 2009, 11:26:22 AM

It was ruled at Nationals that the weapon gets shuffled back with the character.
Not sure about Repentance or other placed cards.

Eric "Green Prophets ftw" Largent

Eric is correct. In fact, I believe it was ruled that the weapon follows the character in all instances except capture now.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2009, 02:29:41 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on August 14, 2009, 01:41:02 PM

That's new to me. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I was at Nationals and wasn't aware of the change, so even some of us that were there could use an official post about these changes.

Another change that I found out about at Nationals is that a Curse or Covenant in your hand can be used as an Enhancement to satisfy a cost. For example you can discard Capture Ark for King Zimri or Covenant with Noah for Stone Pillar at Bethel.

Good to know on both counts... I find it interesting there was not an official post on the boards to let everyone know about these changes. They are pretty big.

Kirk

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2009, 02:45:19 PM »

And one that JDS and I found was confirmed is that a Provisioned green prophet will choose the blocker BEFORE using Hidden Treasures. I've ruled it that way all year but Bryon talked it over with Rob and Chris and comfirmed it at Nats.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2009, 02:46:41 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on August 14, 2009, 02:45:19 PM

And one that JDS and I found was confirmed is that a Provisioned green prophet will choose the blocker BEFORE using Hidden Treasures. I've ruled it that way all year but Bryon talked it over with Rob and Chris and comfirmed it at Nats.

I know for a fact that was ruled somewhere on the boards. Think it got lost in the purge. I know because I asked the question when the ruling happened.

redemption99 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2009, 03:03:35 PM »

really?
that's good to know!

frisian9 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2009, 07:34:13 PM »

Funny, nobody informed me that the REG was changed. There was substantial discussion before placing all hte verbage about "placed" cards when the character is discarded. Perhaps the ruling was in error at nationals?

Mike

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:09:55 PM »

Wierd... We really need to figure out a good system for dealing with new rulings. (A) we need to be able to inform everyone ASAP, (B) we need to ensure all the officials are on the same page as soon as the ruling is made, and (C) that the ruling is put somewhere on the boards until it is officially added to the REG

Seems like rulings reciently have been kinda like "oh I heard this at nats" and then someone else is like "O rly?" and then they're all like "ya rly" and then someone else goes "but that conflicts with this" and so on...

Not saying anyone is to blame, we just need better communication to avoid any confusion.

SirNobody · « **Reply #24 on:** August 16, 2009, 02:34:11 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: frisian9 on August 14, 2009, 07:34:13 PM

Perhaps the ruling was in error at nationals?

That would be my guess as well.

Two Bears or Plague of Frogs would not send the weapon with the character, it would cause the weapon to be discarded.

And on the placed Repentance issue...when my opponent's character that my Repentance has been placed on is returned to my opponent's draw pile, Repentance follows it to the "draw pile" but ends up in my draw pile rather than his because cards are always and only returned to the draw pile they came out of.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

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Author Topic: Shuffling EC's in territory and weapons (Read 2804 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo