Cactus Game Design Message Boards

INE (I'm no Elder) but I have judged Nationals and so I'm using that experience to rule this how I would have if it had come up there. Not saying that means this is 100% correct, just that this is how I would interpret the situation.

Zebulun enters battle first and his ignore ability takes effect. FW then blocks from hand (if she were in territory she couldn't enter battle because of Ignore clause 3). Targets of abilities update dynamically so Zebulun's ignore updates to include FW (since his ability targets all Evil Characters meeting the toughness requirement) immediately upon her entering play. Her protection then activates but, as has been said, can't protect her from the ignore that already targeted her. As such, I would rule that Zeb would be ignoring FW and winning the battle so FW would have initiative until if/when she could interrupt/negate Zeb.

A similar example would be an active Garden Tomb where the opponent has 1 crimson Evil Character in their territory. If the TGT player begins a battle with a TGT Hero and the opponent blocks with Nebuchadnezzar from hand (meaning there are now 2 crimson ECs in play) the ignore would immediately stop targeting crimson characters. If the blocker then searched out and played an enhancement with Nebuchadnezzar's ability, that enhancement COULD target the TGT hero in battle as they are no longer ignoring Nebby.

I believe that is the correct order for those specific things. 2 and 3 are interchangeable I think so the order there doesn't matter much, but the rest seem to be in the correct order. Characters (all cards really) have to be at least in play first otherwise their abilities wouldn't even activate in the first place.

I don't know that this is in the REG anywhere (I couldn't find it when I looked) but it might be a good idea to add it.

I thought you cannot be immune to a character already ignoring you but you can ignore a character that is immune to you, it just results in a stalemate.

Ignore has several parts, some target the characters being ignored and some target the character with the ignore ability. The part that targets character being ignored can't target an immune character because immune makes it untargetable. The other parts of the ignore ability which basically functions the same as immunity targets the character with the ability and that still works. So the ignoring character can't ignore an immune character but it is practically "immune" to it. This does result in a stalemate. Because neither character can harm the other.

yes

I'm at work so don't have time to give an extensive ruling, but my current understanding is that you cannot be immune/protected from an ignore ability that is already in effect. Likewise, you cannot ignore a character that is already protected/immune.

Is there a place in the REG where this is outlined?  It's not in either the Ignore section or the Immune/Protect section.  I thought the rule was:

"If a character is Ignored, that character cannot become Protected/Immune to the Ignoring character." 

This has a subtle, yet material, difference compared to your phrasing:

"You cannot be immune/protected from an ignore ability that is already in effect."

The difference is that, as I understood it, a character must already be Ignored in order to be unable to Protect itself from the Ignoring character.

Ignore now defaults to Play, which is why we can block preblock Ignore from hand (or with characters behind protect forts like Gates of Jerusalem).  So in this example, Zeb is NOT ignoring FW while FW is in hand. 

The second FW hits the table, she Protects herself from opponent's cards who have drawn 5+.  At no point is FW a valid target for Zeb's ability - either she is in hand, and thus not targetable because she is out of play, or she is in play and is protecting herself.

*****

If Justin's explanation is correct (as opposed to how I think it is), that's fine.  But can someone point to it in the REG please?

And if it's not there, can we discuss it before adding it?

Consider that John (I) attacks. He is negating ECs (which defaults to ECs in play). King of Tyrus blocks from hand. John prevents King of Tyrus as soon as he hits the table before KoT's ability to negate John can activate.

Another example would be John (I) attacks and Uzzah blocks from hand. If Uzzah's ability is allowed to activate before John can negate him, then Uzzah uses his ability and goes to the discard pile where he is no longer in play for John to negate him, which is clearly not how we've ruled it.

Those are good examples, and I'm glad you mentioned them.

I think a more apples-to-apples approach, using "Negate" abilities, would be if KoT or Uzzah were CBP or CBN.  Then you'd have this scenario, which aligns with the Zeb/FW scenario:

"Card A is trying to target Card B as Card B hits the table.  Card B's ability protects it from Card A's ability.  What happens?"

If John is blocked by Balaam, John is trying to prevent Balaam, but Balaam's ability is CBP and thus is protected from John's ability.  So Balaam works.

The precedent is set.  If Zeb is blocked by FW as described in the OP, Zeb is trying to Ignore FW, but FW's ability protects FW from Zeb's ability.  So FW works.

It seems to me there is no real right answer at the moment. There is not enough official documentation that relates to this kind of situation to determine on that alone who is right and who is wrong, it's just up to whoever happens to be judging when it happens. I've already said which way I think it is/should be and why, but I think the main takeaway from that the elders need to have an official discussion about this and add whatever is decided to the REG.

I see ignore as a"regardless of protection" type deal.

This is definitely not correct because "cannot be ignored" (protected from ignore) exists in the game already.