Author Topic: Wool Fleece (Read 9089 times)

lp670sv · « **Reply #75 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:06:26 AM »

No system is so perfect that someone, somewhere, won't get confused. If that's what you want then you better start thinking.

browarod · « **Reply #76 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:07:50 AM »

Quote from: theselfevident on June 27, 2011, 11:58:33 PM

This should never have to happen.

Quote from: theselfevident on June 27, 2011, 11:56:30 PM

Arbitrary is something that is based on opinion, it may be informed and well thought out but its still subjective.

These statements seem to be contradictory. By design, people do not all think the same way. Therefore, even when things are explicitly stated (like the definitions of protect, restrict, and prevent), questions will still arise. This thread was started because you did not know that "no evil characters may band" is defined as a prevent in Redemption. People tried to tell you this was the case, but instead you assaulted the very basis of how the game is defined (the Elders). If I were an Elder, I'd have good reason to be upset.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #77 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:58:05 AM »

Quote from: theselfevident on June 27, 2011, 11:56:30 PM

I just merely said, DEFINE the terms on the cards and make it standard so it can't change. that's my simple observation.

I am by no means an authority on English, but I'm positive that an "observation," a "statement," and a "command" are 3 totally different things. According to the above quote, I am inclined to believe it is either a strong statement, or a command, but definitely NOT a simple observation.

Observation: It appears as though the terms on the cards are not clearly defined; nor does there appear to be a set standard.

Statement of opinion: The terms on the cards should be defined according to a set standard.

Command: Define the terms on the cards and make it standard so it can't change.

For this particular instance, it seems as though we have an old card that has wording on it that has yet to be defined according to the new standard of card wording. This whole discussion might have gone better if you had of asked, "Is there a standard way of defining the wording on old cards?" For approx. 95% of the old cards, there are current definitions on how those cards are played via the way they are worded. This happens to be a thread on one of the remaining 5% that have yet to be defined/ruled upon.

I mean no ill-will by this post towards anyone. theselfevident (tse as I will now refer to you), you seem like a person who is fond of logic, so I hope you are following my above logic. The way you approached this discussion gave the impression you were accusing, demanding, and condemning towards a system you did not know all of the facts about. I agree, it would be best for there to be a centralized area on the boards for new players to learn about the Powers That Be Ruling System.

In fact, I would like to make a recommendation that a Topic/Board/Category outlining the ruling procedure be put in an area of the board where it will be one of the first things a new member/player sees on this Forum. If it exists, I never saw it myself, so I'd be curious as to where it might be located o.O .

If you, tse, had of worded you "observation(s)" in a different way, it would not have come off as an argument. Like I said, I'm not an authority on English, nor am I a scholar, but I have been told I have a knack for Reading Comprehension, so please take this advice with a grain of salt. Welcome to the Boards by the way...

Carry On,

-C_S

theselfevident · « **Reply #78 on:** June 28, 2011, 02:00:12 AM »

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on June 28, 2011, 01:58:05 AM

Quote from: theselfevident on June 27, 2011, 11:56:30 PM

I just merely said, DEFINE the terms on the cards and make it standard so it can't change. that's my simple observation.

I am by no means an authority on English, but I'm positive that an "observation," a "statement," and a "command" are 3 totally different things. According to the above quote, I am inclined to believe it is either a strong statement, or a command, but definitely NOT a simple observation.

Observation: It appears as though the terms on the cards are not clearly defined; nor does there appear to be a set standard.

Statement of opinion: The terms on the cards should be defined according to a set standard.

Command: Define the terms on the cards and make it standard so it can't change.

For this particular instance, it seems as though we have an old card that has wording on it that has yet to be defined according to the new standard of card wording. This whole discussion might have gone better if you had of asked, "Is there a standard way of defining the wording on old cards?" For approx. 95% of the old cards, there are current definitions on how those cards are played via the way they are worded. This happens to be a thread on one of the remaining 5% that have yet to be defined/ruled upon.

I mean no ill-will by this post towards anyone. theselfevident (tse as I will now refer to you), you seem like a person who is fond of logic, so I hope you are following my above logic. The way you approached this discussion gave the impression you were accusing, demanding, and condemning towards a system you did not know all of the facts about. I agree, it would be best for there to be a centralized area on the boards for new players to learn about the Powers That Be Ruling System.

In fact, I would like to make a recommendation that a Topic/Board/Category outlining the ruling procedure be put in an area of the board where it will be one of the first things a new member/player sees on this Forum. If it exists, I never saw it myself, so I'd be curious as to where it might be located o.O .

If you, tse, had of worded you "observation(s)" in a different way, it would not have come off as an argument. Like I said, I'm not an authority on English, nor am I a scholar, but I have been told I have a knack for Reading Comprehension, so please take this advice with a grain of salt. Welcome to the Boards by the way...

Carry On,

-C_S

I like this guy!!!!!!!!!!!

SomeKittens · « **Reply #79 on:** June 28, 2011, 11:00:39 AM »

tse, it looks like your problem is not with the system itself. What we have now works for most, and those that want something better begrudgingly acknowledge that what we've got works, if not perfectly. What you've got is an insistence on a perfect system, while making it quite clear you're not perfect yourself, making multiple contradictory statements. (not observations). You claim to enjoy logic, but you "logically" believe in a system that is beyond possible. Everyone who has posted in this thread regarding the ruling has disagreed with you, and most are Elders, REPs, or on their way to REP status. Unless you're Rob's cousin (which has happened before), you're clearly outvoted. Complain about the new system you want, I won't believe you really want a new one until you work toward it.

From my conclusions, if you are to be taken seriously, you suffer from a severe narcissistic flaw, and your problem with the system is that you didn't get to create it. You think that loudly stating your opinions will cause people to put you in charge of changing things.

If you aren't to be taken seriously, then you're the poorest quality troll I've ever seen, and have a narcissistic streak even worse than the one mentioned above.

theselfevident · « **Reply #80 on:** June 28, 2011, 11:13:22 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on June 28, 2011, 11:00:39 AM

tse, it looks like your problem is not with the system itself. What we have now works for most, and those that want something better begrudgingly acknowledge that what we've got works, if not perfectly. What you've got is an insistence on a perfect system, while making it quite clear you're not perfect yourself, making multiple contradictory statements. (not observations). You claim to enjoy logic, but you "logically" believe in a system that is beyond possible. Everyone who has posted in this thread regarding the ruling has disagreed with you, and most are Elders, REPs, or on their way to REP status. Unless you're Rob's cousin (which has happened before), you're clearly outvoted. Complain about the new system you want, I won't believe you really want a new one until you work toward it.

From my conclusions, if you are to be taken seriously, you suffer from a severe narcissistic flaw, and your problem with the system is that you didn't get to create it. You think that loudly stating your opinions will cause people to put you in charge of changing things.

If you aren't to be taken seriously, then you're the poorest quality troll I've ever seen, and have a narcissistic streak even worse than the one mentioned above.

Whoa! that is the nicest thing someone on a game forum has ever said to me.... Let me be clear. I don't care if I am in or part of the system. I just don't want to be told during the middle of the game I am playing that the rules that are posted by the company on the website are wrong and rulings are rewriting cards.I don't want to rewrite them. I don't want them rewritten. I would like the terms defined in a clear and easy place to find them. And FINALLY someone has. So you can take your kind comments and think before you speak.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #81 on:** June 28, 2011, 11:18:51 AM »

They are posted somewhere. The rulebook and the REG are correct unless a change has been made on this webiste. Most of those changes have been recorded in several stickied threads.

theselfevident · « **Reply #82 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:22:03 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on June 28, 2011, 11:18:51 AM

They are posted somewhere. The rulebook and the REG are correct unless a change has been made on this webiste. Most of those changes have been recorded in several stickied threads.

I was recently made aware of where these are. Thank you for following up with a less opposing post.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #83 on:** June 28, 2011, 04:09:18 PM »

I'm not sure I understand the goal of trying to chase away new hosts and players from the boards because of their annoyance of the current system. It is not even remotely illogical to think that the rulebook and REG should have enough accurate information for rulings to made correctly by non-Elders and people who do not frequent the boards.

The problem here is not theselfevident. The problem here is that the REG and rulebook are substantially outdated, and it has taken much too long for them to be updated or replaced.

Give the guy a break.
Theselfevident: at this point, any continuing discussion will lead to more hostility. These Message Boards are not a friendly place for people who dissent the mainstream. I would suggest you do what some us do. Follow the rulings on these boards as best you can. If there is a lack of clarity, then rule as you normally would, but realize that your ruling may be overturned in a different tournament.

browarod · « **Reply #84 on:** June 28, 2011, 04:20:14 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 28, 2011, 04:09:18 PM

I'm not sure I understand the goal of trying to chase away new hosts and players from the boards because of their annoyance of the current system. It is not even remotely illogical to think that the rulebook and REG should have enough accurate information for rulings to made correctly by non-Elders and people who do not frequent the boards.

The problem here is not theselfevident. The problem here is that the REG and rulebook are substantially outdated, and it has taken much too long for them to be updated or replaced.

Give the guy a break.

The problem here is that we tried to explain to him that, yes, the system is a bit flawed at this point but there is an updated document in the works, but instead of accepting that he proceeded to insult the Elders, demand instant changes aligning with his opinionated preferences, and refused to listen to anybody. I'll give him a break as soon as he stops being rude to people when he doesn't get his way. If anything, he's alienating himself by his tone, attitude, and words.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #85 on:** June 28, 2011, 04:22:58 PM »

He was frustrated by a system that he has not seen evolve the way we have. You have to be willing to accept a learning curve for newcomers to the board.

I wasn't talking about you specifically anyway. It seemed that he was being ganged up on.

browarod · « **Reply #86 on:** June 28, 2011, 04:34:38 PM »

Learning curves are fine, and understandable, I'm merely stating he could have gone about the whole thing in a better way than "your system stinks, you should do it my way". lol

I mean, I get frustrated with this game so often sometimes I just have to put it away for awhile to cool off, haha. So I totally understand. I just think that cooler heads prevail and don't grate on nerves nearly as much.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #87 on:** June 28, 2011, 04:46:53 PM »

Quote from: browarod on June 28, 2011, 04:34:38 PM

Learning curves are fine, and understandable, I'm merely stating he could have gone about the whole thing in a better way than "your system stinks, you should do it my way". lol

I agree with you here. It definitely goes both ways. However, certain other people were getting a bit too personal.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #88 on:** June 28, 2011, 05:22:19 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 28, 2011, 04:09:18 PM

... at this point, any continuing discussion will lead to more hostility...

QFT.

This thread was answered in the 3rd post of this thread. Wool Fleece is a prevent.

Discussion over, if y'all wanna keep debating, please take it to another thread.

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Author Topic: Wool Fleece (Read 9089 times)

lp670sv

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browarod

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COUNTER_SNIPER

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theselfevident

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SomeKittens

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theselfevident

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Alex_Olijar

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theselfevident

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YourMathTeacher

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browarod

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YourMathTeacher

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browarod

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YourMathTeacher

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Arch Angel

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