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Author Topic: Besieging the City and Judging Questions  (Read 1521 times)

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« on: November 23, 2014, 01:09:18 AM »
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This came up in the tournament I was Judging today (or yesterday as it will likely be midnight by the time I finish posting this, at least for me) and I wasn't sure and couldn't find a definite ruling.

Besieging the City
Opponent may not draw cards or make a rescue attempt next turn.

Does that mean the literal next turn, or the opponent's next turn. From my reading of the card and lack of evidence to the contrary I ruled it as the literal next turn (which is this case was the turn of the player who played the card and not the opponent, making the rescue part irrelevant and the draw less meaningful).

Also I'm curious about if there are any official rules on how to deal with mistakes noticed by the players after the fact, or at what point does a mistake stick if it is noticed. Because I had to make a ruling and I'm not convinced I made the right call, but I don't like either option. I went for the idea of it being easily reversible, but the next player had already started their turn (they had just drawn and were likely in the process of dealing with artifacts when it was noticed, but nothing else happened. I'm just thankful that neither player would have made a big deal about the ruling given the circumstances)
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Offline Minion of Jesus

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 08:43:29 AM »
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For Besieging the City, it is your opponents next turn. And I have no clue about your other question.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 12:03:59 PM »
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The consistent ruling that I have seen on this card is that "next turn" means "opponent's next turn".  This particular usage of the term "turn" is not explicitly defined in the rules/REG, and thus I would have no reason to think that this would be different now.

On correcting errors, as a judge you should encourage people to correct mistakes that can be undone without disrupting the game.  There is a difference between a correctable error and one that you just have to let go.  If a character is discarded from a territory two turns ago and you suddenly realize it had been protected, then go ahead and return it to territory if that didn't change anything.  But if that character had been in battle and it would have won if it remained in battle...well, that would have changed things if it weren't discarded.

It is going to be a case-by-case thing, and it's going to take a judgement call every time.
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Offline Praeceps

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 11:09:14 PM »
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In the same vein as the first question, who is the "next player" in a 2P game for the evil enhancement False Dreams?

False Dreams - Next player may not make a rescue attempt his next turn.
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Offline Praeceps

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 03:09:01 AM »
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:bump:
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 08:16:04 AM »
+1
As I have stated in previous threads, ultimately everything is up to the host. We have made so many exceptions to things that are both written and unwritten over the years, that no host can truly be held at fault for a ruling error in the heat of the moment. As players, we need to accept the host's authority with grace and understanding. Everybody makes mistakes.

Old cards like Beseiging the City, and even older cards like False Dreams, usually only appear in Booster Draft, where I tend to forgo the "literal" translations of SAs and stick to their contextual meaning. BD is such a fun and nostalgic category that should not be weighed down with wording errors from long ago. Admittedly it can also be fun to see how an older card's wording can be made more useful in the modern meta, but if it works against the holder, then I tend to "let it go."  ;)

Regarding mistakes, I will occasionally go back to correct an error, even if the players have started the next turn, if it was an important game-changing error. Minor errors will not be reversed if the turn has already passed. However, these decisions are based on my discretion, and I see no problem with that. There is no way to write out all possible scenarios and resolutions that a host may face into the Host Guide. We just do the best we can.  ;D
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 01:28:27 PM »
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Thanks everybody. It was my first time officially judging and I just wanted to see if I made mistakes and how to do better next time if necessary.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 04:57:17 PM »
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If this is true can Besieging the City please receive a 'play as' then?  Because what it is written to say is disappointingly completely different from how it is played.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 02:27:32 AM »
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Quote from: Kor on November 26, 2014, 04:57:17 PM
If this is true can Besieging the City please receive a 'play as' then?  Because what it is written to say is disappointingly completely different from how it is played.

Since an opponent can never make a rescue attempt on your turn, BtC is understood to mean "Opponent may not draw cards or make a rescue attempt (on his/her) next turn."

If Besieging the City were played with the alternate interpretation, there would be several almost broken combos with it. Think Hur...  ;)
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Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Besieging the City and Judging Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2014, 02:22:17 PM »
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Quote from: Kor on November 26, 2014, 04:57:17 PM
Because what it is written to say is disappointingly completely different from how it is played.

Who actually plays Besieging the City the other way? There are certainly better ways to keep your opponent from drawing.
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