Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Ken4Christ4ever on March 17, 2012, 05:31:14 PM
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If Goliath kicks out a hero and the new hero puts the battle in mutual destruction, who has initiative?
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I would say the new hero. Goliath added him to battle.
EDIT: That doesn't make sense, Goliath's ability is like a CTB ability. I'm siding with the posters below.
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When there is a stalemate or a mutual destruction, the player who did not play the last card has initiative, but he must pass initiative if he does not play a card.
A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.
So I would say that the new character comes in and activates his ability, and then it is Goliath's initiative. Unless the character has no SA...
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Goliath. The person rescuing added the last card to battle.
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I'm not elder, but I'm of the opposite opinion. The hero(es) enters the battle due to Goliath's special ability, and by the time that finished resolving (which includes the hero's special ability), his was the last special ability that finished resolving, meaning initiative would be the hero's. Just my :2cents:.
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I'm not elder, but I'm of the opposite opinion. The hero(es) enters the battle due to Goliath's special ability, and by the time that finished resolving (which includes the hero's special ability), his was the last special ability that finished resolving, meaning initiative would be the hero's. Just my :2cents:.
+1
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Nameless is correct. Goliaths ability completes (it has to before the hero activates) then the new hero activates so mutual initiative goes to Goliath.
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I didn't find this until later, but the REG says "You have initiative because this is a mutual destruction situation and your opponent played the last card" if you look http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/Master/examplemutualdestructionbynumbers.htm which would seem to say Goliath has initiative.
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And the definition of play says: "A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier."
The hero entering battle is part of Goliath's ability, it by definition CAN'T be after Goliath's ability "completes" because it's part of his ability. Therefore, by the definition of "play" above, Goliath's ability was the last to activate/resolve, so the hero should gain initiative via the quote Ken posted above as Goliath was the last card "played."
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It's not about at what time it completes. Sam would still be the first Hero played in battle even if he banded to a huge chain who all technically complete "before" he completes.
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The hero entering battle is part of Goliath's ability, it by definition CAN'T be after Goliath's ability "completes" because it's part of his ability.
By the rules the hero MUST activate after Goliath's ability completes, since an ability cannot activate until the currently active one is resolved.
When there is a stalemate or a mutual destruction, the player who did not play the last card has initiative, but he must pass initiative if he does not play a card.
A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.
So I would say that the new character comes in and activates his ability, and then it is Goliath's initiative. Unless the character has no SA...
No one seemed to comment on this. I thought it was pretty clear. I'm just not sure about a scenario with an ability-less hero. Does its ability activate even if it doesn't have one?
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It's not about at what time it completes. Sam would still be the first Hero played in battle even if he banded to a huge chain who all technically complete "before" he completes.
I would agree. I also would say he was the last played as well since anyone banded in by subsequent heroes would fall under his ability resolving. If I block with a negate-able banding EC, you can't play anything to negate the band until after the next EC comes in and activates his ability.
By the rules the hero MUST activate after Goliath's ability completes, since an ability cannot activate until the currently active one is resolved.
And yet, last I heard, it was ruled that an enhancement played with a play ability is part of the resolution of the card with the play ability. Why would it be different for characters?
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The order of play depends on the beginning of the playing, not the order of resolution. If I play Reach, then AoC, Reach was played first.