Author Topic: When to use Christian Martyr?  (Read 1499 times)

Offline emonier

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When to use Christian Martyr?
« on: June 02, 2017, 11:56:14 AM »
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Hello All,

This is a basic question...just wanted to make sure I got it right.

Suppose I am fighting a battle, assuming I am the defender, and the opponent wins the battle (i.e. his hero "gets through" my blockers).

Would I be allowed to throw down Christian Martyr at the end of the battle to prevent the hero from rescuing the lost soul?

In other words, I would be playing Christina Martyr AFTER the battle ends, but BEFORE he collects his lost soul.

Is this allowed?

Thanks,

Emonier

Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 11:58:10 AM »
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Yes, you can play CM at the end of battle.  Battle resolution doesn't occur until both players basically say they're done (attacking or defending), so CM could be played as a last resort to block the rescue.
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Offline emonier

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2017, 11:59:55 AM »
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Thanks Watchman,
That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 12:06:27 PM »
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No prob.  It's actually noted in the 4th edition rulebook as a viable play.  Show them that to silence their whining. ;)
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Offline Gabe

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 04:03:45 PM »
+2
The Watchman492 is correct. I'd just like to clarify the timing of when CM (or any other dominant) can be played.

If the blocking evil character is removed by a special ability (be it an enhancement or a dominant) you can play CM to discard the Hero in battle. You can also still use other effects like Unholy Writ to remove a Hero from battle at this time.

If the blocking evil character is losing by the numbers and you choose to discard the EC you have now entered "battle resolution" at which time no dominants can be played. You need to play the dominant before deciding to lose the battle.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 04:35:19 PM »
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Gabe, the last part of your reply contradicts this very question on the below thread I asked almost a year ago about when CM can be played:  Can CM be played if my last EC is removed from battle?  From most or all of the responses I received at that time the consensus was that CM could still be played after my last EC was removed from battle because battle resolution is determined when both players determine it's over.  In line with this the 4th edition rulebook states this:

Page 18-19:  Example - Playing Dominants During Battle

You are making a rescue attempt with John, a purple brigade Hero with abilities of 5/5. Your opponent blocks with Saph, a black brigade Evil Character with abilities of 9/11. You hero is losing. You have initiative.
Instead of playing an enhancement on John, you play Angel of the Lord, a dominant (lamb icon card), that allows you to “Discard an Evil Character”. You discard Saph. Your opponent cannot stop
this using an enhancement. Your opponent also cannot present a new Evil Character. John, who is now unblocked, rescues a Lost Soul (unless your opponent plays Chistian Martyr (grim reaper icon card) that allows him to “Discard a Hero.”).

Here's the original thread:

http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/apparent-contradiction-in-4th-ed-rulebook/msg559456/#msg559456
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kariusvega

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 04:36:40 PM »
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he is referring to the ec dying by the numbers, which is part of battle resolution and at that point it's too late to play cm

Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 04:39:41 PM »
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So you can play CM if you're discarded/removed by a special ability but not if you lose by numbers? Why?  And I thought, after my last post, that perhaps this was due to the dominant initiative rule change, which occurred after the posts on that thread.
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kariusvega

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 04:41:00 PM »
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if you "lose by the numbers" you have entered battle resolution at which point a soul has been rescued meaning it would be too late to play cm for a block

there's nothing stopping you from playing it

you can't say okay my ec dies by the numbers but here's a martyr. either they die by the numbers and you give up a soul or you play cm in battle phase and get a block (and your ec survives)

Offline Jeremystair

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
+3
So you can still play the Christian martyr if you're losing by the Numbers just do it before the evil character is discarded.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017, 04:46:40 PM »
+2
Also, that's why in multi-player games a player should say "I've got nothing left to play, does anyone else want to play anything?" before letting their EC lose as a result of battle resolution (i.e. dying by the numbers).
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Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017, 05:59:04 PM »
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Ok I get how it works now (sorry Gabe)  ;D  So the "why" part to my question would be that if the defender is losing by the numbers then he has one last chance to win the battle before battle resolution. If he chose not to play CM then he gives up the soul; he had his chance to win the battle but didn't take it. But if his character is losing by the numbers or if he's winning by the numbers and the attacker plays AotL or some other SA to get rid of the sole blocker then the defender, because he couldn't do anything about the removal (or he couldn't or wouldn't negate if it was some other means of removal besides AotL) has one last chance to respond and win the battle by using CM. Correct?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 08:15:14 AM by Watchman492 »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 05:59:23 PM »
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Also, that's why in multi-player games a player should say "I've got nothing left to play, does anyone else want to play anything?" before letting their EC lose as a result of battle resolution (i.e. dying by the numbers).

Good point.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: When to use Christian Martyr?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 11:12:29 PM »
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Ok I get how it works now (sorry Gabe)  ;D  So the "why" part to my question would be that if the defender is losing by the numbers then he has one last chance to win the battle before battle resolution. If he chose not to play CM then he gives up the soul; he had his chance to win the battle but didn't take it. But if his character is losing by the numbers or if he's winning by the numbers and the attacker plays AotL or some other SA to get rid of the sole blocker then the attacker, because he couldn't do anything about the removal (or he couldn't or wouldn't negate if it was some other means of removal besides AotL) then he has one last chance to respond and win the battle by using CM. Correct?

Correct.
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