Author Topic: Wheel within a Wheel (Read 2719 times)

slugfencer · « **on:** March 22, 2012, 02:43:12 PM »

Wheel Within a Wheel (FF2)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver/Green • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Search deck or discard pile for an O.T. angel and put it in play. Place on your angel: That Hero is protected from opponents’ Dominants and has Site access. • Play As: Search deck or discard pile for an O.T. angel and put it in play. Place on your angel. While it remains there, protect that Hero from opponents’ Dominants and has Site access. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Ezekiel 1:16 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers Extended booster packs (None)

Household Idols (Ap)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Heroes may not band. Good banding cards have no effect. • Play As: Prevent band abilities of Heroes. Ignore good banding cards. • Identifiers: NT, Depicts an Idol, False Religious Practice • Verse: I Corinthians 12:2 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Question #1--Angel in battle and has initiative. Angel plays wheel within wheel and brings the searched-for angel into battle. Is that ok or does he have to go to territory?

Question #2--Same scenario but HHI is activated. If #1 is OK to add to battle can you do it with HHI activated?

Thanks!

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:45:11 PM »

Wheel Within a Wheel doesn't say "put in battle," just in "in play," so neither scenario would work - the searched-for Angel goes to territory.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM »

The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

megamanlan · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:41:17 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM

The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

This is not what has been explained on other threads. The understanding of 'put in play' means u can throw it in Territory or Battle. (If it's a Character/Enhancement) unless the card states were it goes. (ie UN can't throw a EC to territory). The understanding I have gotten off of other threads is if it says 'put in play' that means anywhere in play, if it states a place (ie Battle or territory) then it goes to that spot.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:42:26 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on March 22, 2012, 04:41:17 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

This is not what has been explained on other threads. The understanding of 'put in play' means u can throw it in Territory or Battle. (If it's a Character/Enhancement) unless the card states were it goes. (ie UN can't throw a EC to territory). The understanding I have gotten off of other threads is if it says 'put in play' that means anywhere in play, if it states a place (ie Battle or territory) then it goes to that spot.

That is flat-out incorrect. If it says "put in play" and doesn't specify, it goes to territory.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on March 22, 2012, 04:41:17 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

This is not what has been explained on other threads. The understanding of 'put in play' means u can throw it in Territory or Battle. (If it's a Character/Enhancement) unless the card states were it goes. (ie UN can't throw a EC to territory). The understanding I have gotten off of other threads is if it says 'put in play' that means anywhere in play, if it states a place (ie Battle or territory) then it goes to that spot.

You'd have to direct me to those other threads then. Because that has never been true.

megamanlan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 22, 2012, 04:42:26 PM

Quote from: megamanlan on March 22, 2012, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

This is not what has been explained on other threads. The understanding of 'put in play' means u can throw it in Territory or Battle. (If it's a Character/Enhancement) unless the card states were it goes. (ie UN can't throw a EC to territory). The understanding I have gotten off of other threads is if it says 'put in play' that means anywhere in play, if it states a place (ie Battle or territory) then it goes to that spot.

That is flat-out incorrect. If it says "put in play" and doesn't specify, it goes to territory.

Then why are there new cards that say otherwise?

When I find them again, I'll let u know.

STAMP · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:35:54 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM

The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

So just to clarify, any character that is placed in battle from hand must pass through territory first? (I think I saw something about this in another thread...)

adotson85 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:55:08 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 22, 2012, 05:35:54 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

So just to clarify, any character that is placed in battle from hand must pass through territory first? (I think I saw something about this in another thread...)

This is my understanding, unless a SA used in battle brings the character directly from your hand to the battle.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2012, 09:40:14 PM »

must say field of battle to enter either territory or battle

megamanlan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2012, 12:00:52 AM »

Would that mean that in Battle is not in play?
And why would it be 'put in play' if It only allows for territory? The wording disagrees with ur assumption unless in Battle is not in play.

browarod · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2012, 09:17:13 AM »

"Put in play" is shorter than "put in territory" in terms of printing it on a card. Yes, battle is still in play, but the ruling declares that "put in play" must be territory (or set aside as certain fortresses specify).

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2012, 11:52:58 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on March 23, 2012, 12:00:52 AM

Would that mean that in Battle is not in play?
And why would it be 'put in play' if It only allows for territory? The wording disagrees with ur assumption unless in Battle is not in play.

Game rule dictates that unless otherwise stated, cards that are "put in play" are put in your territory in whatever section they belong to. That is a game rule, which overrides any theories you might have about the card.

STAMP · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2012, 11:57:47 AM »

Quote from: adotson85 on March 22, 2012, 05:55:08 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 22, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

So just to clarify, any character that is placed in battle from hand must pass through territory first? (I think I saw something about this in another thread...)

This is my understanding, unless a SA used in battle brings the character directly from your hand to the battle.

So wouldn't that allow players to block from hand against TGT when they only have one EC of same brigade in territory?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2012, 12:04:13 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 23, 2012, 11:57:47 AM

So wouldn't that allow players to block from hand against TGT when they only have one EC of same brigade in territory?

Nice try, however "pass through" is not the same as "in territory," at the time that a block is being attempted. The rulebook is very clear about when characters can be placed "in territory."

STAMP · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2012, 01:07:26 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 23, 2012, 12:04:13 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 23, 2012, 11:57:47 AM
So wouldn't that allow players to block from hand against TGT when they only have one EC of same brigade in territory?

Nice try, however "pass through" is not the same as "in territory," at the time that a block is being attempted. The rulebook is very clear about when characters can be placed "in territory."

Ok. But it seems to me that any character who's just "passing through" has been ruled to "be seen". Am I right? TGT specifies "in play". If it's truly ruled that a character can "be seen" "passing through" territory, then it's definitely "in play" even if it's not "in territory". And "passing through" doesn't appear to be "in battle". So TGT's SA is satisfied by "passing through".

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:29:37 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 23, 2012, 01:07:26 PM

So TGT's SA is satisfied by "passing through".

No, it is not. Trying to use semantics to win this battle is not working.

TGT activates and is then ongoing. TGT checks to see who is "in play" before any "passing through" occurs. TGT is already ignoring that character in your hand before you start to move the card from your hand. At that point, only a non-character card can do anything to TGT.

STAMP · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2012, 04:53:27 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 23, 2012, 03:29:37 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 23, 2012, 01:07:26 PM
So TGT's SA is satisfied by "passing through".

No, it is not. Trying to use semantics to win this battle is not working.

TGT activates and is then ongoing. TGT checks to see who is "in play" before any "passing through" occurs. TGT is already ignoring that character in your hand before you start to move the card from your hand. At that point, only a non-character card can do anything to TGT.

Je m'excuse. I rarely would be seen attempting to win any battles regardless if I'm passing through a territory instead of being in play. I'd just be spinning my wheels.

The "game" part of Redemption IS the semantic part anymore.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2012, 07:11:03 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 22, 2012, 05:35:54 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

So just to clarify, any character that is placed in battle from hand must pass through territory first? (I think I saw something about this in another thread...)

No. The default I mentioned is just for abilities that say put in play. I've never seen/heard of the idea that characters that go into battle from hand "pass through" territory. If they did, I'd be inclined to agree with you...but that would make me look bad, so I'm glad I don't have to.

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:32:18 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 25, 2012, 07:11:03 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 22, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
The default for put in play is put in territory. Only abilities that say "band" or "add to battle" are allowed to bring characters into battle.

So just to clarify, any character that is placed in battle from hand must pass through territory first? (I think I saw something about this in another thread...)

No. The default I mentioned is just for abilities that say put in play. I've never seen/heard of the idea that characters that go into battle from hand "pass through" territory. If they did, I'd be inclined to agree with you...but that would make me look bad, so I'm glad I don't have to.

You wouldn't be agreeing with me as I was only asking for a point of clarification. But it's probably good that you put it in writing to absolve yourself of any obligation.

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Author Topic: Wheel within a Wheel (Read 2719 times)

slugfencer

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

browarod

Chronic Apathy