Author Topic: What happens to a hero when... (Read 3623 times)

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **on:** October 19, 2010, 11:54:33 PM »

a play discards dart on a hero who is 2/2? Are they just simply 0/0 or do they get the negative numbers if they are banded in? I just wanna know...

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gray • Ability: 2 / 0 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Holder may discard Dart to decrease a Hero in play by 6/6 until end of turn. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Proverbs 7:23 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2010, 11:57:34 PM »

That Hero would be -4/-4

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2010, 12:00:26 AM »

so he does get the negative numbers?

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2010, 05:35:10 AM »

Yes, I would say that they technically get -4/-4 because the decrease doesn't happen until battle resolution (i.e. dart is not an immediate battle ender because although a character is discarded typically upon reaching 0/0, the decrease effect is not "immediate."). In other words, unless you pump the character back above 0/0, they will "die" at the end of battle. At least, that's how my understanding of the game mechanics is...

**Note: if the enh SA says "If the result is 0/0 or less, discard the character," that IS and immediate effect.**

Maybe someone else can explain it more smoothly.

-C_S

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2010, 09:33:26 AM »

Ongoing Special Abilities > Increase or Decrease Ability
Default Conditions
• Unless stated otherwise, characters in play with toughness (*/0) or less during battle are not immediately discarded. If the character is (*/0) or less at the end of battle, discard them (see Losing by Numbers.

• Unless stated otherwise, cards that increase multiple character’s abilities include the character with the special ability or enhancement.

• Unless stated otherwise, characters that have abilities decreased below zero have negative abilities during the battle.

• The effect lasts until the end of the battle, unless the card specifies otherwise.

• The effect only applies to characters in play unless specified otherwise.

• Cards that increase or decrease abilities of a character only target the abilities of the character (face value plus gained abilities), not the enhancements or weapons used by that character. So, a 6/6 warrior class Hero with a 3/2 weapon is discarded after the battle but a 6/6 Hero with Elijah’s Mantle (Wa) activated is not discarded after the battle in which Hunger (Pr) is played.

Why doesnt Hunger discard immediatly?

Hunger (Pr)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero. • Play As: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. Heroes of other players are uneffected. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero.

Because of the Play as? Why was it given this Play as?

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2010, 09:51:34 AM »

So in this case with dart, you would get the negative numbers but if the numbers were still negative at the end of battle he'd be discarded regardless. If he did get his numbers up on the positive, he'd still be able to survive. Correct?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2010, 09:54:22 AM »

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2010, 09:56:12 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 20, 2010, 09:33:26 AM

Why doesnt Hunger discard immediatly?

Hunger (Pr)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero. • Play As: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. Heroes of other players are uneffected. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero.

Because of the Play as? Why was it given this Play as?

I'm not sure why it has the Play As that it does (with the bit about other players' heroes), but the reason Hunger doesn't discard immediately is that the second "ability" is clarifying text as to what happens in general when a Hero is decreased below */0. The rules for the battle phase say that characters at */0 or less are not discarded immediately, but are rather discarded at the end of battle.

Bryon posted about a tentative new guideline in the Golden Censer thread (not Rob-approved yet, but likely will be) that all second sentence abilities from cards Apostles and previous are understood to be clarifying text for the first ability, i.e. they explain what happens in general when the first sentence is carried out, but have no real effect on the game.

So the bit on PotW (Warriors) and Emperor Nero that say that "only a rescue of two or more Heroes can be successful" only describes what generally happens when a lone Hero is blocked by a character that is immune to lone Heroes, it doesn't actually mean that if I attack with a lone hero and play Plague of Frogs against Nero that I still wouldn't rescue a lost soul.

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on October 20, 2010, 09:51:34 AM

So in this case with dart, you would get the negative numbers but if the numbers were still negative at the end of battle he'd be discarded regardless. If he did get his numbers up on the positive, he'd still be able to survive. Correct?

Only with cards that say "Hero gains something/something until end of turn" where the something would make the hero have a toughness greater than zero. Playing regular enhancements does not increase the Hero's abilities for purposes of saving him from Hunger, et al.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2010, 09:58:18 AM »

Ahhhh.....ok so not from enhancements but gained abilities would help them not be discarded...got it : )

Korunks · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2010, 12:01:37 PM »

Quote

Only with cards that say "Hero gains something/something until end of turn" where the something would make the hero have a toughness greater than zero. Playing regular enhancements does not increase the Hero's abilities for purposes of saving him from Hunger, et al.

How long has this been the rule?! I may have been playing this wrong forever. So to clarify:

I Rescue with Salome(7/6), they block with Fallen Warrior, play hunger, So Salome is now 1/0 and has intiative. I play No Need for Spices to ignore and gain 3/4 making Salome a 4/4. He passes intiative, so the battle ends. You are claiming that I would Recieve the Lost soul but Salome would still be discarded?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2010, 12:16:01 PM »

Yes, because Salome would return to territory as a 1/0 hero, and therefore would be discarded by game rule.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:03:48 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on October 20, 2010, 12:16:01 PM

Yes, because Salome would return to territory as a 1/0 hero, and therefore would be discarded by game rule.

I thought if ANY Hero reached */0 at ANY time during the game, they are discarded....?

The M · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:17:33 AM »

You can't die immeadiately unless it says so?

The Schaef · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:22:21 AM »

They are, but certain rules apply to certain situations.

Cards in battle remain in battle until they are removed by a special ability or the battle ends. At the end of battle, Battle Resolution says that cards affected by an end-of-battle condition (e.g. Potiphar's Wife) go where the effect tells them, and the rest go where normal game rules tell them to go. Enhancements (except weapons) are discarded; access Sites go back to territory; defeated characters go to discard and surviving characters go to territory, etc.

In particular, characters who are losing by the numbers have the opportunity under normal battle rules to play cards to increase their numbers. The fact that they are reduced below zero does not change that. But when the battle ends, if the character is still below zero, then they have a problem. They're going to get discarded by game rule.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:40:42 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on October 20, 2010, 09:56:12 AM

Bryon posted about a tentative new guideline...that all second sentence abilities from cards ~~Apostles~~ Warriors and previous are understood to be clarifying text for the first ability, i.e. they explain what happens in general when the first sentence is carried out.

fixed

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2010, 02:29:10 PM »

Emperor Nero is worded indentically to Prince of this World (Wa) and thus should be included in the rule, he's not from Warriors, which is why I think Prof A listed Apostles.

Korunks · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2010, 04:55:39 PM »

I still don't understand why the rule that "If you have positive numbers at the end of battle, you can still be discarded if your base numbers are at 0 or below due to an ability." I thought after Battle Resolution temporary decreases go away. So why should I be discarded if at the end of battle, If I am at positive numbers, and after battle phase I return to normal numbers? Is there a tiny window of time Where I am not in a phase for me to be discarded?

The Schaef · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2010, 05:02:00 PM »

Decreases that last until end of battle go away. Decreases that last until end of TURN...

Korunks · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2010, 05:07:25 PM »

Ah that would be the piece of the puzzle I missed. I get it now.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2010, 05:35:06 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on October 21, 2010, 05:02:00 PM

Decreases that last until end of battle go away. Decreases that last until end of TURN...

Quote from: Korunks on October 21, 2010, 05:07:25 PM

Ah that would be the piece of the puzzle I missed. I get it now.

I'm glad that was posted.... I missed that too. I always forgot it went until end of turn, not just battle. thanks

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Author Topic: What happens to a hero when... (Read 3623 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef