Author Topic: What does Thorns ls stop? (Read 4647 times)

Mr.Hiatus · « **on:** March 01, 2010, 08:43:09 PM »

Ok the thorns lost soul-while this card is in play protect each lost soul in play from being shuffled, placed under draw pile, or exchanged.
Now does this stop lost souls in draw pile. Lets say Susanna tries to place a lost soul beneath deck, does thorns target lost souls not in play? Since they are still technically lost souls, or does it work like it should and not stop those lost souls that are still not in play yet?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2010, 08:53:33 PM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 01, 2010, 08:43:09 PM

Ok the thorns lost soul-while this card is in play protect each lost soul in play from being shuffled, placed under draw pile, or exchanged.
Now does this stop lost souls in draw pile. Lets say Susanna tries to place a lost soul beneath deck, does thorns target lost souls not in play? Since they are still technically lost souls, or does it work like it should and not stop those lost souls that are still not in play yet?

I would say yes, it stops them from going to the bottom.

Korunks · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:01:06 PM »

I would say no they are not in play, since they never enter play it does not prevent them from going to the bottom.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:04:43 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 01, 2010, 09:01:06 PM

I would say no they are not in play, since they never enter play it does not prevent them from going to the bottom.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:06:10 PM »

it says lost souls. it would protect lost souls in the draw pile too. good enhancements are still good enhancements in the draw pile. lost souls are too.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:51:38 PM »

I would agree with 3-Liner agreeing with Korunks. The LS in your deck cannot be targeted as they are out of play.

In a practical sense, since Susanna allows me to look but does not force me to reveal the cards, how are you going to know if I place LS under my deck?

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 01, 2010, 09:06:10 PM

it says lost souls. it would protect lost souls in the draw pile too. good enhancements are still good enhancements in the draw pile. lost souls are too.

By this argument, if I played Reach of Desperation could I play an enhancement from my deck? After all RoD says "play the next enhancement card," and enhancements are still enhancements in the draw pile.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2010, 09:58:51 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 01, 2010, 09:51:38 PM

I would agree with 3-Liner agreeing with Korunks. The LS in your deck cannot be targeted as they are out of play.

In a practical sense, since Susanna allows me to look but does not force me to reveal the cards, how are you going to know if I place LS under my deck?

hmm... that makes sense... but then how does JT work? it protects cards not in play.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2010, 10:02:02 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 01, 2010, 09:58:51 PM

how does JT work? it protects cards not in play.

Because JT specifically states that it is targeting cards in the deck. Similarly, Emperor Augustus can target NT characters in set aside, even though they are not in play.

Bryon · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2010, 10:17:23 PM »

Unlike most abilities, Protect does extend to out-of-play areas. (Consider how Lampstand protects Redeemed Souls and hands). However, it is unreasonable to protect lost souls in a deck from shuffle.

Perhaps it is best to say that protect does not extend to cards in deck, unless that is specified.

Sean · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2010, 10:21:25 PM »

The special ability specifically targets LSs that are in play. Why is there even a question?

protect each Lost Soul in play from being shuffled, placed under draw pile, or exchanged.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2010, 10:30:25 PM »

Oh will you just let them have their fun..... party pooper.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2010, 10:32:00 PM »

And there you have it folks. Sean with a home run.

Now considering the hypothetical case where it didn't say in play, I would agree with those who say it wouldn't affect LS's in draw pile. Yes, protect can sometimes extend to out-of-play areas, such as with Lampstand, but I've always been told that the reason for that was because it specified a location (not in battle) so it automatically applies to all cards not in battle (a ruling which has always irked me, pero asi es la vida). I don't think that protection in general does/should apply to cards not in play.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:23:56 AM »

Thanks Sean. I am dumb.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:26:16 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 01, 2010, 10:32:00 PM

And there you have it folks. Sean with a home run.

Now considering the hypothetical case where it didn't say in play, I would agree with those who say it wouldn't affect LS's in draw pile. Yes, protect can sometimes extend to out-of-play areas, such as with Lampstand, but I've always been told that the reason for that was because it specified a location (not in battle) so it automatically applies to all cards not in battle (a ruling which has always irked me, pero asi es la vida). I don't think that protection in general does/should apply to cards not in play.

I agree

crustpope · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2010, 07:50:24 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 01, 2010, 10:32:00 PM

And there you have it folks. Sean with a home run.

I think Sean is a lot smarter than the rest of us because he can read. He seems to always see these obvious rulings while the rest of us are battling over the details.

good job sean

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:14:04 AM »

I might know what everyone is talking about, but I can't read.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:58:48 AM »

how did we miss this?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2010, 09:32:00 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 02, 2010, 08:58:48 AM

how did we miss this?

I we had seen it, there would have been nothing to argue about. Arguing is fun.

Korunks · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2010, 09:38:03 AM »

I saw it that's why I posted what I did, I just thought everyone else had seen it, so didn't point it out. Maybe its a Shawn/Sean thing

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2010, 01:42:54 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 02, 2010, 09:32:00 AM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 02, 2010, 08:58:48 AM

how did we miss this?
I we had seen it, there would have been nothing to argue about. Arguing is fun.

Ahh yes, the good ol' days...

VS.

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2010, 03:12:53 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 02, 2010, 01:42:54 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 02, 2010, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 02, 2010, 08:58:48 AM

how did we miss this?
I we had seen it, there would have been nothing to argue about. Arguing is fun.

Ahh yes, the good ol' days...

VS.

Strong Bad would always win this fight! He has TROGDOR on his side!

STAMP · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2010, 04:16:05 PM »

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on March 02, 2010, 03:12:53 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 02, 2010, 01:42:54 PM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 02, 2010, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 02, 2010, 08:58:48 AM

how did we miss this?
I we had seen it, there would have been nothing to argue about. Arguing is fun.

Ahh yes, the good ol' days...

VS.

Strong Bad would always win this fight! He has TROGDOR on his side!

Is TROGDOR the catchphrase for moderator permissions?

SirNobody · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2010, 03:27:49 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 01, 2010, 10:32:00 PM

Yes, protect can sometimes extend to out-of-play areas, such as with Lampstand, but I've always been told that the reason for that was because it specified a location (not in battle) so it automatically applies to all cards not in battle (a ruling which has always irked me, pero asi es la vida). I don't think that protection in general does/should apply to cards not in play.

I agree with this. Both the ruling and the irk caused by the ruling.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

frisian9 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:13:08 PM »

I'm still puzzled by what is referred to as the "Lampstand ruling". I did a search and find no ruling. I see a discussion, but it's all recent. Was something decided in the past (the dark ages)?

Mike

STAMP · « **Reply #24 on:** March 04, 2010, 11:10:21 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on March 04, 2010, 09:13:08 PM

I'm still puzzled by what is referred to as the "Lampstand ruling". I did a search and find no ruling. I see a discussion, but it's all recent. Was something decided in the past (the dark ages)?

Mike

not in battle = territories, LoB, LoR, set-aside, deck, discard, face down, and hand

News:

Author Topic: What does Thorns ls stop? (Read 4647 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk