Author Topic: What do I do with these cards? (Read 13679 times)

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #75 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:36:36 PM »

Just saying again, here's some examples of the ideas you illustrate.

Goliath's Armor stays in play when Goliath is discarded, because cards say "evil character" not "evil character and connecting enhancements".

Lampstand of the Santcuary stays in play when I play Battering Ram on Z's Temple which holds it because discarded Fortresses don't take their occupancies with them.

Please don't tell me you want this. Seriously.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #76 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:40:47 PM »

I don't want you to give up I want you to have a mindset change to what is the currect ruling and mindset.

Next time you witness, just give up and say the Muslims are right.

SJSharks · « **Reply #77 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:44:33 PM »

I guess I just didn't like my evil characters getting discarded. Sorry if I got carried away.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #78 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:53:42 PM »

We used great analogies and many precedents to explain ourselves. Bryon's bunker analogy was among the best. If you don't want to agree so be it, but the relativism you exude right now is bad.

PS talking to muslims isnt bad
PSS you misinterpreted the sarcastic analogy i was using with that post
PSSS next time i hear you say something wrong theologically, ill not try to help correct because your allowed to have your own opinion
PSSSS that was sarcasm btw.

lightningninja · « **Reply #79 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:00:33 AM »

Quote from: Janissary on July 05, 2009, 11:53:42 PM

We used great analogies and many precedents to explain ourselves. Bryon's bunker analogy was among the best. If you don't want to agree so be it, but the relativism you exude right now is bad.

PS talking to muslims isnt bad
PSS you misinterpreted the sarcastic analogy i was using with that post
PSSS next time i hear you say something wrong theologically, ill not try to help correct because your allowed to have your own opinion
PSSSS that was sarcasm btw.

SJSharks · « **Reply #80 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:01:55 AM »

Let me rephrase my last post.

Quote from: SJSharks on July 05, 2009, 11:44:33 PM

With everyone. I just didn't like my evil characters getting discarded and got carried away sorry.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #81 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:01:10 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 03, 2009, 02:20:28 PM

However, I'm going to guess that I will lose this argument just like I did the last time

I go away for a few days and this thread explodes. And my prediction of course comes true.

It also occurs to me that in both this example as well as the PoA vs. 12FG debates that I have engaged with Bryon, he has ruled against protection both times. I think that perhaps Bryon just really doesn't like the protection part of the rock-paper-scissors game

lightningninja · « **Reply #82 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:58:36 AM »

Wait till you see the cards he made in the new set.

sk · « **Reply #83 on:** July 06, 2009, 02:34:19 AM »

Quote from: SJSharks on July 05, 2009, 10:15:00 PM

What is to say that the other ruling is the one that is wrong?

Because the same kind of question has been asked many, many, many times. Every time, the PTB rule that the characters follow the fort. Since the single statement that says otherwise is contradictory to the other REG quotes, and because the PTB (see: Bryon, among many others) agree with the other quotes, it is obvious the one is outdated and in error.

Quote

All rulings in the REG are considered Official for tournament play. If there is a discrepancy with the latest edition of the rulebook, the REG overrules the rulebook. - Rob Anderson

Quote

I believe that we should follow every ruling in the REG whether or not it is correct. I know that the REG is "outdated", but what's to stop it from being updated more frequently (If Mike is to busy to do it I’m sure someone can be found to help/take over). The reason I believe this is because if we don't have a completely official source of rules all tournament hosts would have to be required to follow and remember the outcome of every ruling question on these boards which is clearly not possible. If we have a National rating system (which we do) we should also have a consistent set of rules at all tournaments, which is impossible with an outdated rules source.

First off, the REG is a guide. It is not infallible law for the game. It overrides the rulebook, sure, but not Rob or Bryon (or a couple of other Playtesters when they are making official rulings). It can be changed and fixed. Just because it hasn't yet been repaired doesn't mean it doesn't need to be or won't be.

Second, it has been mentioned that the REG needs to be updated many times. It has been stated that one person running the REG is better than multiple heads, so it is updated entirely based on Mike's availability. The PTB have decided that the best way for a full update to happen is to do a complete reworking of the REG, which is rumored to be released in September. I personally agree that we need the updates, but at least we finally know that they are going to happen (rather than 2 years of just waiting).

Third, we have had such a case of needing to refer to the boards for more current rulings at several of Bryon's tournaments. These rulings, when made by someone official, are official rulings that are to be followed, and even if they don't actually show up in the REG yet. Not all that many of the threads are complete rule changes, and most side with the REG in one way or another and are just clarifications, and the copule left can just be bookmarked or printed out for quick access. Another couple months and all will be solved.

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on July 05, 2009, 11:44:56 PM

i am not, going to talk to, a muslim, unless, God, tell me to.

Mark 16:15 - Then he said to them, "As you go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to everyone..."

Looks like He did

The Schaef · « **Reply #84 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:24:39 AM »

Quote from: SJSharks on July 05, 2009, 11:27:29 PM

So a tournament is played by players who haven't read this thread and another tournament is played by players that have. The two tournaments would be played differently yet would still count the same in RNRS even though the tournament was played under incorrect rules.

A person is judging using the printed version of the REG. The online version of the REG was recently updated. The person using the printed version will be judging differently than the one using the online version.

A person is judging based on a ruling he read online on Wednesday. An update to that rule is made on Friday. The person using the ruling he read on Wednesday will be judging differently than the one who looks it up on site.

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on July 05, 2009, 11:30:26 PM

well ther are a bunch of things in life that condradict. just think about it please,

I am thinking about it. And all I'm telling you (with details and examples) is that it's not possible to follow 100% of the rules 100% of the time when any two rules say the exact opposite thing. Following one of those rules MUST break the other, there's no way around that. That's the reason that this has to be resolved, and one (old, obsolete) rule fixed.

There are a dozen different possible ways a tournament could be judged differently by people who are acting honestly and trying to do the right thing. There is no way to avoid that; it's going to happen sometimes. It's the same thing as the scenario you just gave to me. The difference between all of those and what you suggested earlier, is that you are suggesting people deliberately make the wrong ruling based on what someone else may or may not know. That would not be fair to someone who is keeping up to date on the rules and makes a combo based on something he came here, asked us for help with, and confirmed that he could do it. I'm a lot more comfortable living with the possibility of people making honest mistakes than asking them to give people a wrong judgment on purpose.

Quote

Please tell me another scenario where this is the case (involving fortresses).

Enhancements in Storehouse,
a Hero in Judge's Seat,
Heroes in Obadiah's Caves,
Artifacts placed on Solomon's Temple/Z Temple/Tabernacle,
human characters in City of Refuge,
an Evil Character in The Darkness,
a weapon in David's Tent,
Enhancements in Musician's Chambers,
a demon in The Pit,
Heroes in Stronghold in the Desert,
Artifacts on High Priest's Palace,
Heroes in House of Bethany,
an Artifact on Temple of Dagon.

Gabe · « **Reply #85 on:** July 06, 2009, 08:17:12 AM »

This thread has run it's course and we have a definitive conclusion. Thanks for taking the time to talk this through so everyone understands it.

P.S. - I think we should blame Schaef for locking it.

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Author Topic: What do I do with these cards? (Read 13679 times)

Alex_Olijar

Re: What do I do with these cards?

Alex_Olijar

Re: What do I do with these cards?

SJSharks

Re: What do I do with these cards?

Alex_Olijar

Re: What do I do with these cards?

lightningninja

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SJSharks

Re: What do I do with these cards?

Prof Underwood

Re: What do I do with these cards?

lightningninja

Re: What do I do with these cards?

sk

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The Schaef

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Gabe

Re: What do I do with these cards?