Author Topic: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles? (Read 5920 times)

Nameless · « **on:** September 05, 2011, 10:12:44 AM »

Do they count as good or as evil, for the perpesses of searching for them?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2011, 10:14:55 AM »

Quote from: Nameless on September 05, 2011, 10:12:44 AM

Do they count as good or as evil, for the perpesses of searching for them?

Both.

Neil Da BOMB J · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2011, 11:55:47 AM »

I will highjack this thread (seeing that david got his answer) to ask if I can search for counsil of abigail( a Red/Purple enhancment) with a soldiers prayer. I also wqant to know if Curses count as enhancments or/and artifancts in Draw pile.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2011, 12:06:52 PM »

Yes to the first. A Red/Purple enhancement is both a Red enhancement and a Purple enhancement.

No to the second. A Covenant or Curse in the draw/discard pile is a Covenant or a Curse. It is not an enhancement nor is it an artifact.

The Warrior · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2011, 12:55:54 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on September 05, 2011, 12:06:52 PM

Yes to the first. A Red/Purple enhancement is both a Red enhancement and a Purple enhancement.

No to the second. A Covenant or Curse in the draw/discard pile is a Covenant or a Curse. It is not an enhancement nor is it an artifact.

This is inconsistent. Shouldn't Good/Evil Card be Neutral until play similar to Cov's?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2011, 01:07:52 PM »

No. Covenant and Curse are card types, just as Enhancement is a card type. In deck and discard, all cards are face-value which for a Cov/Curse is a Cov/Curse, and for a DAE is an Evil Enhancement and a Good Enhancement.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2011, 01:38:20 PM »

Nice explanation.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:27:56 PM »

As an aside to this, if a good/evil enhancement is played in battle as a good enhancement for a hero, and that hero later plays a card that says "Discard all evil enhancements in battle," would the good/evil enhancement be discarded?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:32:55 PM »

No. Once they're played, they can only be targeted as the alignment they've been played as. (As long as they stay in territory/battle/set aside.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:51:15 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 05, 2011, 01:07:52 PM

No. Covenant and Curse are card types, just as Enhancement is a card type. In deck and discard, all cards are face-value which for a Cov/Curse is a Cov/Curse, and for a DAE is an Evil Enhancement and a Good Enhancement.

To further clarify (or perhaps the opposite), covenants and curses are subject to the same default brigade rules as enhancements and characters. For example, if you have a card that says "search discard pile for a Pale Green Curse," that will allow you to search for Covenant with Death because it is both Pale Green and Brown, just as Soldier's Prayer can search for Counsel of Abigail because it is both Red and Purple.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2011, 04:33:18 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on September 05, 2011, 02:32:55 PM

No. Once they're played, they can only be targeted as the alignment they've been played as. (As long as they stay in territory/battle/set aside.

Correct. This is similar to how DoN can take out a covenant or curse that is active as an artifact.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2011, 06:04:30 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on September 05, 2011, 04:33:18 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on September 05, 2011, 02:32:55 PM
No. Once they're played, they can only be targeted as the alignment they've been played as. (As long as they stay in territory/battle/set aside.
Correct. This is similar to how DoN can take out a covenant or curse that is active as an artifact.

I don't think it's similar at all. In fact, from what i can tell the logic of curses being targeted as their face value and what they're used as is the exact opposite of DAEs only being targeted as what they're being used as.

A Cov/Curse is ALWAYS considered a Cov/Curse. It is also targettable according to how it is being used. however, it is still considered good/evil for brigade checks on cards such as Balance.

DAEs should always be treated as BOTH good and evil to follow this logic.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** September 05, 2011, 06:09:52 PM »

A Cov/Curse is always a Cov/Curse.

A DAE is always an Enhancement. Good Enhancement and Evil Enhancement are not card types, they are alignment designations of the card type "Enhancement."

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 05, 2011, 07:12:29 PM »

Quote from: Arch Angel on September 05, 2011, 06:04:30 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on September 05, 2011, 04:33:18 PM
Quote from: SomeKittens on September 05, 2011, 02:32:55 PM
No. Once they're played, they can only be targeted as the alignment they've been played as. (As long as they stay in territory/battle/set aside.
Correct. This is similar to how DoN can take out a covenant or curse that is active as an artifact.
I don't think it's similar at all. In fact, from what i can tell the logic of curses being targeted as their face value and what they're used as is the exact opposite of DAEs only being targeted as what they're being used as.

Huh?

When a Covenant is put into play as an artifact (for example), you can target it as an artifact and you cannot target it as an enhancement. When a good/evil enhancement is put into play as a good enhancement (for example), you can target it as a good enhancement and you cannot target it as an evil enhancement. The two situations are complete analogous. I am confused as to why you think in-play targeting is the "exact opposite" between the two.

In play targeting (and my statement above which is talking about in-play targeting) have absolutely nothing to do targeting in deck or discard pile.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2011, 09:01:06 PM »

I believe the precieved difference is that Curses and Covenants are additonal card types - I am Patience being used as an artifact cannot be targeted as an enhancement, but it can be targeted as both a curse and an artifact.

Dual-Alignment-Enhancement isn't an official card type - There isn't a single card in the game that refers to them as such, And so comparing them to Covs/Curses is kind of like comparing a Crab apple to a Fuji or Braeburn. That is where the confusion comes in.

NOW, before somebody tries to quote me on this, I'm just stating why I think some players (Myself included) Don't fully understand why we can't Grapes Foreign Sword off of Ahimelek.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2011, 09:17:28 PM »

Can you use DoN to Discard a CoM that Balaam played in battle?

WesterForever · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2011, 09:28:13 PM »

No, because if a covenant is used in battle it is played as an enhancement. So it loses its Artifact identifier.

Master KChief · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2011, 11:21:24 PM »

thats exactly why you cannot grapes a foreign sword on a red brigade hero, it was designated as a good enhancement so it loses its evil enhancement identity.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2011, 01:15:01 AM »

would this also apply to multiple brigade good enhancements? if I play spritual warfare on a green hero could it not be targeted as a silver enhancement?

lightningninja · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2011, 01:29:03 AM »

I believe it could, that's still the same type of card. Both silver and green enhancements are good enhancements.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #20 on:** September 10, 2011, 10:33:56 AM »

So is this an official ruling?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2011, 12:05:25 PM »

I don't know how official it is, but that is the way it has been played forever.*

*Or given the confusion about what happens when you unprevent a prevented enhancement, maybe I should say that is how everyone I have seen has played it forever. Pol may have played it differently.

browarod · « **Reply #22 on:** September 10, 2011, 01:29:04 PM »

Maybe I live under a rock, but I've never heard that a green/silver enhancement loses its green-ness if played on a silver hero.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2011, 02:25:41 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on September 05, 2011, 09:01:06 PM

Dual-Alignment-Enhancement isn't an official card type - There isn't a single card in the game that refers to them as such, And so comparing them to Covs/Curses is kind of like comparing a Crab apple to a Fuji or Braeburn. That is where the confusion comes in.

I agree with RDT that this is the crux of this issue. Either:

1 - DAE should be its own card type, and then when it is played it becomes a DAE/GE -OR- a DAE/EE.

2 - DAE is NOT a card type, and then the card is always both a GE -AND- an EE.

If #1 is correct, then you could not target a DAE played on a hero as an EE. If #2 is correct, then you could. At this time, I don't know whether we will declare DAE's to be a new card type.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2011, 02:58:02 PM »

My understanding (and how I've been playing it) is that a good/evil enhancement only has the identifier of what it's been played as, once it's been played. However, in the draw pile, discard pile, or hand, it functions as both. Honestly, this seems the logical way to play it, based on the way that covenants and curses are used once put in play. If played as an artifact, it cannot be targeted as an enhancement, and vice versa.

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Author Topic: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles? (Read 5920 times)

browarod

Chronic Apathy