Author Topic: What defines a culture? (Read 6388 times)

Professoralstad · « **on:** March 31, 2010, 01:08:25 PM »

The Ishmael new card idea thread lead me to wonder: what defines what culture someone is from? Is it the culture they were born into? A culture that they became a part of? A culture their parents belonged to? I think this type of question should be addressed. For a lot of characters, it's obvious what their cultures were (Pharaoh's are obviously Egyptian, Emperors Roman, etc.) But when it comes to civilizations that conquered/enslaved others at certain points in history, where is the line drawn?

Some of the characters I am thinking of:

Jacob, Leah, Rachel, and all of Jacob's sons: Should they be considered Syrian, since Jacob was essentially Laban's servant, and Rachel, Leah, and Jacob's sons were descended from Laban, who was Syrian/Aramean. Also, Servant Girl was an Israelite who was the captured slave of Naaman the Syrian. Should she be considered Syrian as well?

The Hebrew slaves of the Egyptians (Moses, Aaron, Miriam, etc.). Should they be Egyptians?

The Egyptian slave of the Amalekite. Is he an Amalekite?

Jethro (who became integrated into the Israelite culture from Midian. Is he an Israelite?

NT non-Jewish Heroes: The one I can think of specifically is Luke. Is he considered a Greek? Also on that note, Timothy had a Greek father and a Jewish mother. Is he both a Jew and a Greek?

I'm sure there are many more possibilities, but this is a good starting point. I'm hoping that with the new REG comes a better way to define cultures.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:12:03 PM »

I'm glad you posted this, because I was thinking the same thing during that thread. It's interesting that we have come so far in the game without ever really establishing the guidelines for something like this.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:14:22 PM »

To be honest, cultures have really only been very important in the last few sets, but they are now becoming exponentially important. So it seems time that some guidelines are put in place.

STAMP · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:15:46 PM »

Factors:

% of bloodline
Place of birth
Generations removed
Naturalization process maybe (like slavery)??

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:18:38 PM »

I've been arguing that Moses should be an Egyptian for years.... No luck yet.

STAMP · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:21:35 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 31, 2010, 01:18:38 PM

I've been arguing that Moses should be an Egyptian for years.... No luck yet.

That's important, because qualifiers DO transfer when heroes are converted to EC.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:39:35 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 31, 2010, 01:21:35 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 31, 2010, 01:18:38 PM
I've been arguing that Moses should be an Egyptian for years.... No luck yet.

That's important, because qualifiers DO transfer when heroes are converted to EC.

However, identifiers CAN change, as we have seen with Magicians. It's possible (but inconvenient) for us to say that Moses is considered an Egyptian only as an EC.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2010, 01:47:18 PM »

That would be unnecessary. Egyptian Heroes are also useful for Assyrian self-capture decks with King Asnappar.

Isildur · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2010, 11:55:43 AM »

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on April 06, 2010, 11:54:07 AM

you know, when i read this, i wonder if philistines are muslim, considering philistie is a muslim sect, or at least i am pretty sure they are, cause (well, i have a muslim friend on a online game, don't ask (me and him don't talk alot anymore)) they don't like jews cause of the reason that they "took" over philistie. but they do not beleive in david (i know this sounds stupid considering david was the one who conquered over philistie) and... thats about it..

What? The Philistines in the bible were a pagan culture not Muslims!

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:06:25 PM »

Your post contains so much fail it's not even funny.

Philistines are not a Muslim sect. Islam was founded approximately 1500 years after the fall of the Philistines.

Philistines didn't like Jews because they were at war with each other.

Philistines did believe in David while he destoryed them. They didn't think he wasn't real. I don't even know what you mean by that.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:14:19 PM »

....And the fail level just jumped even higher.

Quote

i said nothing about philistines, i said stuff about muslims. i said, I wonder if philistines are muslim. i dont recall saying anything about them being muslim.

Well if you look at the bolded words, you DID say that, and in fact REPEATED it. If you look at the italicized words, those are synonyms. Words that are different but mean the same thing.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:15:59 PM »

You said Philistines are muslims, and then go on about Philistines. I corrected you. You said no, I didn't say that! Even though you clearly did.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:22:17 PM »

Uh, "allah" was a golden calf?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:29:48 PM »

Interesting, wrong, but interesting. Still philistines were there BEFORE the Israelites wandered into the desert.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:35:52 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 06, 2010, 12:29:48 PM

Interesting, wrong, but interesting. Still philistines were there BEFORE the Israelites wandered into the desert.

In Israel? I thought they were a horde of basically pirates (or barbarians) in the East (near Crete and Greece) that came to Israel during the time of the Judges and Samuel....been too long since I took a biblical history course...

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:36:44 PM »

What text books? I get my information from the bible. Also the Philistine's "god" was Dagon, not allah. No the bible doesn't because (to my knowledge) it didn't exist until after.

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on April 06, 2010, 12:35:52 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 06, 2010, 12:29:48 PM
Interesting, wrong, but interesting. Still philistines were there BEFORE the Israelites wandered into the desert.

In Israel? I thought they were a horde of basically pirates (or barbarians) in the East (near Crete and Greece) that came to Israel during the time of the Judges and Samuel....been too long since I took a biblical history course...

You just want to say the 5 philistine pirate lords.

Seriously though, I remember (not the reference off the top of my head) that it states that God didn't take them straight to Cannan from Mount Sinai because they could not yet deal with the philistines.

Edit: Found it!

Exodus 13:17. When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them on the road through the Philistine country, though that was shorter. For God said, "If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt."

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #16 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:45:09 PM »

Quote

the only poeple who hate and hated the isrealites are muslims

Wow, just... Wow. Apparently you've never heard of the Nazis. Jewish people have ALWAYS been hated. Muslims are no exception. If memory serves the muslim nation came from Ishmael (ya know, Hagar's son, the one Sarah BANISHED after making her sleep with Abram?) so that is the reason to hate the Jewish nation.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:46:58 PM »

Several reasons, probably the most obvious being the fact the Abraham's chosen was Issac (of the Israelites) and not Ishmael (who is traditionally the forefather of the Muslim nation).

Also, it is interesting that Abimelech was a Philistine, as is Philcol his commander...but the Philistines are most noted for their armies during the age of Iron....which if I remember correctly falls after the Exodus which was the age of Bronze...and I just realized that's a different abimelech than the one in Redemption, who was in Judges.

crustpope · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:48:23 PM »

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on April 06, 2010, 12:35:52 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 06, 2010, 12:29:48 PM
Interesting, wrong, but interesting. Still philistines were there BEFORE the Israelites wandered into the desert.

In Israel? I thought they were a horde of basically pirates (or barbarians) in the East (near Crete and Greece) that came to Israel during the time of the Judges and Samuel....been too long since I took a biblical history course...

Techno is not far off here. The Philistines are often thought of as being a part of the "Sea Peoples" that rocked Egypt around the time of the patriarchs. It was a migration of a people group (some believe to be greek/Minoan/myceneean in origin) that invaded Egypt and weakened Egypt.

RR is correct though in saying that they were likely present before the exodus given the refference.

Anda s far as the Philistines being muslim....It is an anachronism to say that they were muslim. That is like saying Ishmael is a muslim. or t hat Abraham is a Christian..(although e does have a cross icon.) You cant have christians before christ and you cant have mulsims before Muhammad.

its a simple matter of history

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:49:53 PM »

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on April 06, 2010, 12:46:58 PM

Several reasons, probably the most obvious being the fact the Abraham's chosen was Issac (of the Israelites) and not Ishmael (who is traditionally the forefather of the Muslim nation).

Also, it is interesting that Abimelech was a Philistine, as is Philcol his commander...but the Philistines are most noted for their armies during the age of Iron....which if I remember correctly falls after the Exodus which was the age of Bronze...and I just realized that's a different abimelech than the one in Redemption, who was in Judges.

Yes, yes it is. I was about to say XD. You are correct. Their armies were known during the age of Judges/Saul/David biblically but the only reason Israel didn't run into them earlier, is what I quoted above.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:53:06 PM »

Quote

. If memory serves the muslim nation came from Ishmael (ya know, Hagar's son, the one Sarah BANISHED after making her sleep with Abram?) so that is the reason to hate the Jewish nation.

I answered why there would be a reason. Also, were the muslims in philistie at that time?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #21 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:55:13 PM »

That would be why then. If I took over your home, would you be upset?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:57:52 PM »

wallzoftxttime!

Your thinking of Palestinians not Philistines. Philistines were an ancient seafaring people who attacked Egypt around 2000 BC and weakened their global empire (which is why the Hittites then moved into Canaan). The Hittites stagnated and a couple hundred years later, the Philistines attacked Canaan and instead of simply raiding, as they had in Egypt, they chose to settle the area. By the time Israel showed up another 200 years later, the Philistines had grown into a technologically advanced civilzation that dominated Israel for awhile. These two civilizations were constantly at war over Canaan. Israel finally defeated Philistia around King David's time.

Meanwhile, Islam was founded in 500 AD, nearly 1500 years after David defeated the Philistines. Mohammed traced Allah (or God)'s chosen line through Ishmael, not Isaac. The current Palestinians are descendants of Ishmael. They are muslim. Because of this, they view today's Jews as usurpers of their land and inheritance. As such, they're at war. Islam states that all the Biblical promises of inheritance and land were made to Ishmael, not Isaac, and so, Muslims hate Jews because they see them as cheating Muslims out of their rights.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on April 06, 2010, 12:56:39 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 06, 2010, 12:55:13 PM
That would be why then. If I took over your home, would you be upset?

Ok, now you are saying they are muslim.

Not at all. You said the muslims occupied it when it was taken over. (Not the philistines)

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on April 06, 2010, 12:54:35 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 06, 2010, 12:53:06 PM
Quote
. If memory serves the muslim nation came from Ishmael (ya know, Hagar's son, the one Sarah BANISHED after making her sleep with Abram?) so that is the reason to hate the Jewish nation.
I answered why there would be a reason. Also, were the muslims in philistie at that time?

They would have to be otherwise muslims wouldn't be mad at the jews for taking it back over.

So were the philistines there or the Muslims?

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on April 06, 2010, 12:57:52 PM

wallzoftxttime!

Your thinking of Palestinians not Philistines. Philistines were an ancient seafaring people who attacked Egypt around 2000 BC and weakened their global empire (which is why the Hittites then moved into Canaan). The Hittites stagnated and a couple hundred years later, the Philistines attacked Canaan and instead of simply raiding, as they had in Egypt, they chose to settle the area. By the time Israel showed up another 200 years later, the Philistines had grown into a technologically advanced civilzation that dominated Israel for awhile. These two civilizations were constantly at war over Canaan. Israel finally defeated Philistia around King David's time.

Meanwhile, Islam was founded in 500 AD, nearly 1500 years after David defeated the Philistines. Mohammed traced Allah (or God)'s chosen line through Ishmael, not Isaac. The current Palestinians are descendants of Ishmael. They are muslim. Because of this, they view today's Jews as usurpers of their land and inheritance. As such, they're at war. Islam states that all the Biblical promises of inheritance and land were made to Ishmael, not Isaac, and so, Muslims hate Jews because they see them as cheating Muslims out of their rights.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2010, 01:02:12 PM »

In as much as There is a difference between Assyrians and Sryians. (So yes. A giant difference)

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Author Topic: What defines a culture? (Read 6388 times)