Cactus Game Design Message Boards

You'll have to explain you're reasoning a bit more. How can CBP abilities be prevented exactly?

This issue for me came about here, and here

Basically, you can play any plain old vanilla negate after a CBP card is played, and it is negated.  I bet you could even band in a FBTN character after a CBP is played and you can negate it.  Which leads me to ask, what is the point?

It just means you can't stop it before hand. Which can come in handy sometimes...

I can see both sides of this argument.

there's not arguement, it only CBP b4 its played

I understand that is sometimes handy, but it makes no logical sense.  I cannot negate a CBN card, I cannot interrupt a CBI card, but I can prevent a CBP card?

it makes TONS of since... ur saying we should be able to prevent things that have already happened?

Don't forget to add in that you can prevent a "pending" ability that has ALREADY begun to activate. Thats the biggest one I disagree with by far.

A Cannot be Interrupted copy of Great Image is apparently still stopped by FBTN, because it prevents the pending ability from activating at the end of the fight. I am completely opposed to this rule.

Quote

it makes TONS of since... ur saying we should be able to prevent things that have already happened?

No  .  I am saying that once a CBP card is played, you shouldn't be able to ever prevent it.

Conflict of terms..

Me:  You cannot negate this card because it CBN and CBN means CBN, same with CBI, but CBP doesn't mean CBP.

New Player: Huh?

The quote above is actually a quote from trying teach someone new about the rules.  The first thing they said after that is it makes no sense.  I agree, this really doesn't make any sense to me either.

It might help if you found a different way to explain the way the card works.  Teaching based on what you admit is your own incomplete understanding of the card is going to give the students the same confusion the teacher has.

CBP means you cannot prevent the ability of the card before it is played.
CBI means you cannot interrupt the ability of the card after it is played.
CBN means you cannot do either of these things before OR after.

That's it.  And those definitions work; they mean what they say and they say what they do.

You are not preventing the ability of the card if you are stopping its effect after it has been played.

Doesn't all of this confusion come from the outdated definition of "negate" (which I still use when I teach new players) - "interrupt and prevent"?  It seems to me that the "prevent" part of the definition of negate is what caused all of this.  I know what they MEANT when they gave that definition of negate, but I still believe they should have used a different word other than "prevent".  By defining "negate", once upon a time, as "interrupt and prevent", we made a card going back in time somehow and preventing something BEFORE it happened, which is exactly what "Cannot be prevented" says cannot happen to itself.  It seems to be it would have been better defined as "Undo" or "Nullify" or even something as simple as "Stop" - basically anything but "prevent".

Teaching based on what you admit is your own incomplete understanding of the card is going to give the students the same confusion the teacher has.

I actually understand how the card is played, just disagree with it.  Perhaps I should clarify, I agreed with the new player that it makes no sense why we play it the way that we do.  I fully understand the rule, just disagree with it.  Out of the traditional way we play Negate, Interrupt, and Prevent CBI and CBN make perfect sense to me.  The only anomaly seems to be CBP.

You are not preventing the ability of the card if you are stopping its effect after it has been played.

I disagree, if you interrupt a card, and then prevent it.  you are inserting the prevent before the cannot be prevented, thereby preventing it before it is played.  Unless we change the definition of interrupt to not say: insert x effect before y effect (I paraphrase), then I will still believe that CBP makes no sense.

CBP means you cannot prevent the ability of the card before it is played.
CBI means you cannot interrupt the ability of the card after it is played.
CBN means you cannot do either of these things before OR after.

I will repeat, I know how the cards are to be played, I am attempting to discuss the way I would like for them to be played, perhaps I posted this in the wrong section.

Here, let me try: Cannot be prevented, emphasis on the PRE.  Pre = before.  There are cards that say: "Prevent the special ability of the next x played."  A card can only be prevented beforehand, not after.  

Interrupt does NOT equal prevent.  When you interrupt, you delay something.  Basically, you change the initiative by going back in time and delaying the effect of the CBP card.  In other words, you haven't prevented it, only delayed it.  So it's effect WILL happen as long as the interrupt does not remove initiative.

Negate = make it as though it never happened.  It does not prevent the ability, it gets rid of it.

So to clarify: CBP cannot be prevented by another card beforehand.  CBN and CBI are NOT preventing the the card because they happen After CBP has been played.  You cannot prevent something from happening in the past because THAT would make no sense.  It would be like me saying: "I prevent my birth."  (Not until time machines are built will I believe that).

Cannot be prevented, emphasis on the PRE.  Pre = before.  There are cards that say: "Prevent the special ability of the next x played."  A card can only be prevented beforehand, not after.

Heres where I am having issues with prevent. As stated, it has been ruled that you can prevent an ability AFTER a card has been played, without interrupting it.

THAT is gonna be a fun one to explain to new players.

Quote from: Bryon on June 14, 2010, 04:37:50 PM

"Cannot be prevented" can be interrupted.  It is as simple as that.

"Cannot be interrupted" can be prevented.

"Cannot be interrupted" cannot be interrupted.

"Cannot be prevented" can be prevented?!?!?!?!?!?!

It's not as simple as that.  It's illogical.  Period.

Yes, it is that simple. 

You can interrupt "cannot be prevented."  Once it is interrupted, it no longer is giving its "cannot be prevented" effect.

What you call illogical is actually quite logical.