Author Topic: Herod's Treachery interacting with Ignore, Protect, and CBN (Read 1411 times)

SirNobody · « **on:** August 06, 2013, 01:53:18 AM »

Hey,

If I play Herod's Treachery on Sisera in battle against a gold hero and place it on a Herod in my territory does it remain CBN in future turns until I use it?

During my prep phase I play Herod's Treachery on Lot's Daughters and then place it on Herod Agrippa II. The next turn Herod's Treachery still counts as played on Lot's Daughters correct?

If my opponent attacks with a fight by the numbers hero on the next turn, negating Herod's Treachery for that phase, when Herod's Treachery kicks back in during the discard phase does it still count as played on Lot's Daughters or is it now played on Herod Agrippa II?

Thaddeus attacks with 10 disciples in play. I block with Leviathan, somehow get initiative and play Herod's Treachery placing it on Herod Agrippa II in my territory and then immediately discarding it. I can withdraw Thaddeus because the enhancement is played on Leviathan and not Herod Agrippa II correct?

Quote from: REG.Immune.HowToPlay

A card that is immune cannot be targeted by an ability that is on a card to which it is immune or on a card played on that card.

Does the "a card played on that card" include enhancements played on that card before the Immune/Ignore/Protect happened or only enhancements played on that card while the Immune/Ignore/Protect ability is in effect?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:34:10 AM »

Re: Sisera, yes it would remain CBN.

Re: Lots Daughters, yes it remains played on them in subsequent turns.

Re: FBTN, the EC it was played on does not change.

Re: The Thad scenario, it was played on Leviathan.

Re: immune/ignore/protect, I don't know that we've ironed that out, but I would imagine it's only cards played while the ability is active.

Drrek · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:35:31 AM »

If it was played CBN it stays CBN forever.

I believe Lot's Daughters would be counted as having played it, in both examples.

I believe you could withdraw thaddeus in this case.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2013, 10:22:42 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on August 06, 2013, 02:34:10 AM

Re: Sisera, yes it would remain CBN.

Re: Lots Daughters, yes it remains played on them in subsequent turns.

Re: FBTN, the EC it was played on does not change.

Re: The Thad scenario, it was played on Leviathan.

Re: immune/ignore/protect, I don't know that we've ironed that our, but I would imagine it's only cards played while the ability is active.

I agree with all of the above, with the possible exception of the last one. I think Thaddeus would be protected from an HT played on an X or less EC on a previous turn, but I am not 100% sure if that is/should be the case.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:25:17 AM »

With the large number of Thad's that are likely to be seen at Nats this year, we should probably iron out something definite on this one.

It seems logical to me that a card can only be protected from cards that are played after it is protected. Imagine the following scenario:

Me: Attacks with two banded Z-temple priests while Z-temple is NOT in play
Opp: Defends with an EC and plays a capture EE on one Z-temple priest
Me: Now have initiative and plays a banding card to bring in Haggai (who puts Z-temple in play)

Now Z-temple priests are protected from capture, but I do NOT think that I should get that captured Z-temple priest back. Because he wasn't protected when that capture card was played.

Similarly imagine my opponent plays HT on a small EC on a previous turn, and later Thad comes into battle and is protected from that EC. He wasn't protected back when HT was played, so I think it should still be able to work.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:36:02 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on August 06, 2013, 11:25:17 AM

With the large number of Thad's that are likely to be seen at Nats this year, we should probably iron out something definite on this one.

It seems logical to me that a card can only be protected from cards that are played after it is protected. Imagine the following scenario:

Me: Attacks with two banded Z-temple priests while Z-temple is NOT in play
Opp: Defends with an EC and plays a capture EE on one Z-temple priest
Me: Now have initiative and plays a banding card to bring in Haggai (who puts Z-temple in play)

Now Z-temple priests are protected from capture, but I do NOT think that I should get that captured Z-temple priest back. Because he wasn't protected when that capture card was played.

Similarly imagine my opponent plays HT on a small EC on a previous turn, and later Thad comes into battle and is protected from that EC. He wasn't protected back when HT was played, so I think it should still be able to work.

I could possibly be convinced to agree with that logic, but I think the situation is actually more similar to the following:

I activate Writ.
You attack with a non-protected human Hero.
I block with someone to give your Hero initiative.
You play a banding card to bring in Melchizedek (protect all Heroes from capture, etc).
Now even though Writ was played (it's ability was activated when the artifact was) before anyone was protected, the protect now stops Writ from being able to capture anything. A placed enhancment (with a manual trigger) like HT operates more like an Artifact than a normal enhancement played in battle (as in your description).

The way I see it: If HT is played by HAII, then a */6 character played the enhancement, and anything that enhancement does is considered to have been done by that */6 character. So once Thad is protected from */6 characters, he is protected from enhancements used by them, including a card like HT.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2013, 01:49:37 PM »

Assuming HT was placed in a prior phase, when its discarded later for its effect is it considered played or is it a triggered ability that's activated on a card that was played earlier in the game?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:13:07 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on August 06, 2013, 01:49:37 PM

Assuming HT was placed in a prior phase, when its discarded later for its effect is it considered played or is it a triggered ability that's activated on a card that was played earlier in the game?

Cards are only played when their abilities are activated (or would activate if they can't for some reason due to negates/invalid targets/no SA on the card, etc.). That's why Lifting the Curse can be used to discard Covenant with Death after it has been placed. So the bolded choice is correct.

Praeceps · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2013, 01:15:32 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 06, 2013, 02:13:07 PM

Quote from: Gabe on August 06, 2013, 01:49:37 PM
Assuming HT was placed in a prior phase, when its discarded later for its effect is it considered played or is it a triggered ability that's activated on a card that was played earlier in the game?

Cards are only played when their abilities are activated (or would activate if they can't for some reason due to negates/invalid targets/no SA on the card, etc.). That's why Lifting the Curse can be used to discard Covenant with Death after it has been placed. So the bolded choice is correct.

Does this effect Thad? If it's only an ability to be triggered after having been placed in a previous turn, then it's not being played off HAII, and thus subject to the protection, is it?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2013, 06:01:07 AM »

It is played off of the EC who played it to place on a Herod. That could be the Herod it is placed on, or any other EC in your territory or battle that plays it when appropriate.

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Author Topic: Herod's Treachery interacting with Ignore, Protect, and CBN (Read 1411 times)

SirNobody

Herod's Treachery interacting with Ignore, Protect, and CBN

Gabe

Re: Herod's Treachery interacting with Ignore, Protect, and CBN

Drrek

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Professoralstad

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Prof Underwood

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Professoralstad

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Gabe

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Professoralstad

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Praeceps

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Professoralstad

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