Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Scenario: Michael with Angel's Sword is blocked by Sapphira. Does Michael get to play the first enhancement?

I've always seen it played that Angel's Sword (or whatever weapon) gains CBN status from Michael. However, I'm not entirely sure why.

Does the weapon-class enhancement enter battle with the Hero or after the Hero finishes (other than banding)? If it enters with the Hero, then it activates (and is "played") but is queued due to order of operations at that point (based on mass banding and multiple cards being played simultaneously) and the Hero shouldn't be able to affect its CBN/I/P status. If it enters battle after the Hero finishes, where exactly is it between when it and the Hero together leave territory and when it later enters battle alone? I mean, there's no location called "limbo".


Michael
Enhancements played with Michael cannot be negated.

Angel's Sword
Play As: If blocked by a human Evil Character, holder may play an enhancement on this character.

Sapphira
Negate all special abilities on characters and enhancements (except this ability).

Definition of play
You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability (or numbers in battle)

In order of operations character abilities go before weapon abilities (except for the case of banding and choose the blocker), and enhancements (including weapons) are not played until they are activated for their special ability.  Because of this Michael enters battle, his ability activates before weapons do, then his sword activates and was CBN at the time of activation.

Order of operations, by definition, is how you determine what order to carry out special abilities that activate at the same time, that's my point. If the weapon activates after the character then it wouldn't be in the order of operations since the Hero is already done.

But why can weapons insert themselves in the middle of character abilities if they don't activate prior to that? If the weapon isn't active then the game doesn't know it's there waiting to insert itself. Order of operations exists for abilities that activate simultaneously as a means of determining how to carry them out, it doesn't apply to inactive abilities (because they're not active, lol). Therefore, the weapon would need to be active for it to even be considered for order of operations queries, wouldn't it?

the abilities activating consecutively .... 'activates' later to negate everything.

It can't both activate consecutively and activate "later." Abilities only activate once per battle, so which one is it?

Quote from: Redoubter on October 22, 2013, 05:37:49 PM

the abilities activating consecutively .... 'activates' later to negate everything.

It can't both activate consecutively and activate "later." Abilities only activate once per battle, so which one is it?

First, I said the same thing both times, that they activate in a particular order (consecutively or one later than the other both mean that).  And the way to look at the situation is:  All cards enter battle at the same time.  Abilities do not activate at the same time, they activate in a specific order.

Characters or Character+Weapon, it doesn't matter, it's the same situation.  The cards enter the battle.  Then abilities activate in a specified order, whether due to the order of abilities in the rules or someone choosing the order (as in multiple characters banding).

The only two abilities on cards that occur simultaneously are the rescue ability of Son of God and the rescue ability of New Jerusalem.

I never said the abilities occur simultaneously, just that they activate simultaneously and then are queued to resolve.

All cards enter battle at the same time.  Abilities do not activate at the same time, they activate in a specific order.

Characters or Character+Weapon, it doesn't matter, it's the same situation.  The cards enter the battle.  Then abilities activate in a specified order, whether due to the order of abilities in the rules or someone choosing the order (as in multiple characters banding).

Character abilities activate when they enter battle, characters are not considered in battle until their ability activates (or is that not the case anymore?). Therefore, if a character's ability hasn't activated, it's not in battle, so I don't understand how you can say they enter battle at the same time but activate later. It seems contradictory to me. Either they're in battle and activated, or they're not in battle because they're waiting to activate. Based on the rulings for mass banding they are in battle, so they have to be active. Since abilities can't occur simultaneously, this is where order of operations and choosing card order comes in to determine how they resolve. This makes sense and fits with the rules, so where am I mistaken?