Author Topic: Embarassing, but still asking about "Cannot be negated" (Read 1995 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** June 21, 2009, 06:15:02 PM »

I've already asked on this before, and it seemed the answer was "Cannot be negated means never ever under any circumstances", but this is what came out in today's games:

1) Benjamin - Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated - Makes a rescue attempt while Golden Calf (Negate all special abilities on OT heroes) is active. Are Benjamin's enhancements negated by Golden Calf or not?

2) John - Negate all special abilities on evil chracters except banding - is blocked by Naaman (OT enhancements used by Naaman cannot be negated), who also had Naaman's chariot and horses, so he always had initiative. Can Naaman's enhancements be negated now that John has negated his special ability? We ruled that they could, but I think I got a lost soul that I shouldn't have.

Thanks for your help, AGAIN.

DaClock · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2009, 06:17:59 PM »

Cannot be negated abilities, like the ones on the characters in your example, cannot be negated. Ever.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2009, 06:19:51 PM »

So....

1.) Golden Calf does not cause the negation of Benjamin's enhancements.

2.) John does not negate Namaan's OT enhancements.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:01:48 PM »

This seems to be a big problem in games; I should make myself a shirt to wear at tourneys. ...

crustpope · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:03:32 PM »

on all the answers above.

furthermore, anything that grants cannot be negated status cannot be negated. This means that abel's sacrifices even when played in a FBTN battle, make all the rest of the enhancements CBN

While most negates cascade if you negate an earlier enhancement, you can never make a CBN enhancement cascade. Example. I have Joel with Coat of many colors, you block with 4/5 Esau but you have the gray curse "Unsuccessful" up. I play AoCP to discard Esau in battle (by playing it on coat of many colors) You know you cannot interrupt the battle because AoCP cannot be negated (and therefore cannot be interrupted or prevented) but you try to do an end around by using unsuccessful to negate Coat of Many colors. You can negate Coats ability to play other enhancements, but AoCP, once it is played (and any enhancement that Cannot be negated) cannot be undone so negating Coat does not negate AoCP.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2009, 08:44:45 AM »

Lurch · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2009, 09:42:11 AM »

right, and cannot be negated does not stop a cannot be negated ability.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:34:15 PM »

Going back to the Benjamin question, lets say that in theory he plays a bunch of enhancements, then plays a search/band and puts a non-genesis hero in play, If I play then Midianite attack is everything negated?

DaClock · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:46:37 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on June 22, 2009, 05:34:15 PM

Going back to the Benjamin question, lets say that in theory he plays a bunch of enhancements, then plays a search/band and puts a non-genesis hero in play, If I play then Midianite attack is everything negated?

Cannot be negated isn't dynamic, cards either have it or don't when they are played. If it couldn't be negated when played, it can't be later.

crustpope · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:52:58 PM »

benjamins SA has two parts:

Special Ability: If all of your human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 49:27 •

If you have no non-Genesis Human heros in play, AND if you play a genesis enhancement on Benjamin, it cannot be negated. The CBN status deals with whether the SA is met at the time the enhancement is played. Nothing done afterwards can undo an enhancement that was granted CBN status.

So if benjamin was to band in, say, 8/8 Beniah, the battle would be FBTN for both parties and benjamin would lose CBN status for the remainder of battle, but not on the genesis enhancements played before the band. (and I cant think of a Genesis banding card so it is quite likely that the band would be negated too pushing beniah out of battle making it FBTN with just benjamin and his enhancements)

Edit: instaposted with daclock.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2009, 06:48:02 PM »

Numerous as the Stars could grab a FBTN person couldnt it?

Paladin · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2009, 06:49:30 PM »

Example, Michael- enhancements cannot be negated. So if they play a card to negate one of Michael's ehancements, it won't work.

crustpope · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2009, 07:23:13 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 22, 2009, 06:48:02 PM

Numerous as the Stars could grab a FBTN person couldnt it?

Yeah, but from someone who runs a genesis offense, I never thought of putting a non-genesis hero into my deck to use numerous as the stars on.

But yeah, benjamin could play that one and band in Beniah and he would still stay in (b/c Numerous ability CBN) but the rest of the battle would be FBTN and Benjamin would be dicarded after battle.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2009, 07:25:33 PM »

Yeah, a lot of times ruling examples would make no sense in actual decks.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2009, 07:25:56 PM »

Benaiah (or any BTN character) would negate Ben's discard of himself. The first sentence is CBN, the second one isn't.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2009, 12:03:29 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 21, 2009, 06:19:51 PM

2.) John does not negate Namaan's OT enhancements.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is incorrect. If John is negating the special ability of whatever EC comes out (since he was played first), then that would mean that Naaman's special ability would be negated, meaning that the OT cards he plays could be negated. He still gets initiative first, since Naaman's Chariot and Horses doesn't get negated by John's SA, but any cards he plays can be negated.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2009, 12:05:10 AM »

Cannot be Negated means Cannot be Negated. not directly, not indirectly, no way, no how that puppy sticks. (Commandment 3)

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2009, 12:10:46 AM »

Quote

If John is negating the special ability of whatever EC comes out (since he was played first), then that would mean that Naaman's special ability would be negated

Any SA that grants can't be negated status to any other card(s) can't be negated.

crustpope · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2009, 12:55:27 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on June 22, 2009, 07:25:56 PM

Benaiah (or any BTN character) would negate Ben's discard of himself. The first sentence is CBN, the second one isn't.

good catch. I missed that one.

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Author Topic: Embarassing, but still asking about "Cannot be negated" (Read 1995 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Chronic Apathy