Cactus Game Design Message Boards

So if my opponent has both Weakness and The Throne of David in his territory, who plays the first enhancement when I block his purple king?

This isn't the same thing, is it? For 2kH, using it is part of the actual blocking, which must happen before AS can be used. In this case, both of the cards have a trigger that as far as I can see both activate at the exact same time - as soon as a blocker is presented, right?.

So you would think that if PwD was active when the hero entered battle, the EC could play first, but if the EC is normal until I block with Morgan to decrease him, the hero could play first?

...I could understand that.

Maybe we need a ranking system for things like these based on power level of cards.  Something like the following:

Enhancements
Characters
Artifacts
Fortresses
Dominants

Whenever 2 of these things contradict, and would normally happen at the same time, the lower one wins.  In this case TToD (fortress) is lower than Weakness (enhancement), and therefore the attacker would play first.

Either that or you could decide which activated first, since BOTH of those cards have ongoing abilities.

I also like this "first come, first served" plan.

Thats a different case. We discussed that one ad nausuem about how it made no sense for AS to insert itself before weapon class enhs, which come before banding abilities, meaning the characters SA couldnt complete.

Also, in the AS vs 2kh example, 2kh wasnt trying to play the FIRST enhancement, it just said "play an enhancement"

in this case, its two ongoing abilities battling for who plays first. I say the first one active in a case like this goes first.

With the exception of David's Harp/PF, first active seems to be the general rule for conflicting abilities (ongoing or not) - RC/DoM, Pot's Wife/Take as a Slave, War Officer/DoM, etc.

Maybe it's optional abilities (in order of activation) then mandatory abilities (in order of activation)?

I see where you are comming from, but I still think ongoing abilities that conflict should work on a first come first serve basis. Whoever gets their card active first gets to play first. So, take for example...

TToD is played first, and the opponent RA's. I block with The Jeering Youths and PwD is up. I play Weakness off of TJY since theres no conflict there, but... The opponent would get to play the next enhancement dispite them having a weakened hero. Why? Because TToD was active first, and its ability takes priority.

I see this as a very easy, very fair way of ruling this. the way RTS proposed would always end up one way, weakness winning. The way I propose gives BOTH players an equal chance, sorta like GoyS vs FA.

I don't know how "official" I am (I have judged at a couple of Nationals, so you decide), but here's how I would rule:

The Throne of David gives the Hero the right to play the first enhancement.  Weakness gives the EC that same right.  Since Weakness obviously overrules cards like Angel's Sword (even though Weakness says nothing about negating or interrupting anything), I would rule that Weakness always wins.  The EC gets to play first.

Kevin Shride

I agree with Kevin (who's right by the way ).

TToD triggers when the EC to blocks, but it waits for all abilities to complete that are controlled by the blocking player and tied to the evil character entering battle.  One of the possible abilities is Weaknesses "play next" ability.  Once all the blocking players abilities have completed then TToD may take effect.

This really isn't any different than the ruling that was already made for Go Into Captivity.

Hey,

I'm really not sure on this one.  Which is why I haven't posted prior to now.

There is a very old precedent that the first ability to activate takes precedence.  I believe it predates the release of Warriors (to give you a rough idea about how old it is).  Which is the basis of the examples listed by Aggie.  But you'll notice none of the examples he listed were triggered ability vs. triggered ability.  And I'm not real comfortable following a ten year old vague precedent considering how much the game has developed in the last ten years.

When multiple things happen during a player's upkeep phase - which technically is an example of two triggered abilities that are triggered by the same thing a la Weakness and The Throne of David - (ex. The Lord Fights for You and Judge's Seat) - the player whose upkeep phase it is gets to choose the order they occur in.   I wouldn't be opposed to implementing a player's choice rule in all triggered ability vs. triggered ability situations.  Although in the Weakness vs. The Throne of David situation the question becomes which player.  I'd lean towards saying the player whose turn it currently is gets to choose (which would give an advantage to the offense, which fits the general design of the game).

On the other hand Prof's order based on card type has some merit.  There is already a precedent of Dominants and artifacts taking precedence over other cards (case and point being the Go Into Captivity vs Angel's Sword ruling that Gabe mentioned).   That precedent for artifacts and dominants could be expanded to include all card types.  That system also has the established "tie-breaker" that whoever performed the last action gets to respond by playing a dominant or using an artifact before their opponent can.  Based on that tie-breaker the defender would get to play the first enhancement because they made the last action of blocking.

I really don't know

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

in other games ive seen...the triggered abilities are chosen in what order they activate by the active player
however they also use the stack to resolve these abilities so whatever abilities are chosen by the active player to go on the stack last are the first to resolve off of the stack.  I dont agree that certain card types should trump other card types. It should be abilities no matter the card type and i agree that when you have two or more abilities trying to enter the stack simultaneously the active player should recieve priority as to which ability enters the stack first.

what was the ruling concerning multiple dominates hitting the board at the same time?